Michael Perry: Running The #1 Real Estate Team In Utah
From a career-ending injury to leading Utah's #1 real estate team, Michael Perry discusses scaling a massive business and finding opportunity in a shifting market.
Michael Perry
The Perry Group; #1 Team in Utah
At a Glance
Archive Scoring
Introduction
Michael Perry’s entry into real estate wasn’t a lifelong dream; it was a 24-hour decision born from the end of a football career. This pivot from the gridiron to the housing market highlights the resilience required of high performers. He emphasizes that while his father was in the industry, his own path was forged through the grind of open houses and a relentless commitment to people. The Perry Group’s rapid expansion—from three members to over eighty in just a few years—serves as a case study in organic growth and cultural alignment. Michael attributes this success to a 'sports family' atmosphere, where healthy competition and mutual support drive performance without the toxicity often found in high-stakes sales environments. Beyond team building, Michael delves into the mechanics of the luxury flip market. Partnering with his wife, he has found a niche in high-end Salt Lake City properties, proving that quality and design remain recession-proof even when the broader market fluctuates. His philosophy on investing is grounded in deep market knowledge rather than just chasing spreadsheets. In a period of high interest rates and seller panic, Michael identifies a rare window for buyers. He argues that the ability to negotiate significant price reductions outweighs the temporary burden of higher rates, echoing the wisdom of buying when others are sidelined. This episode serves as a roadmap for anyone looking to transition from a 'job' mindset to a legacy-building career in real estate.
Episode Overview
A detailed look at the topics, people, and context of this conversation.
Michael Perry, founder of the #1 real estate team in Utah, joins the show to discuss his unconventional journey from collegiate athlete to industry leader. With a focus on the Salt Lake City market, Michael explains how a knee injury at Snow College forced him to find a new competitive outlet, leading to the creation of the Perry Group. He shares the 'organic' scaling story of his team, which exploded from a small partnership into a powerhouse of over 80 agents. The discussion moves into the tactical side of the current housing landscape, specifically the shift from the 'inflated' years of 2020-2021 to the current era of buyer negotiation. Michael provides a candid assessment of why he believes the 'slashing' of prices has hit its floor and why Utah remains one of the most undervalued luxury markets in the West compared to hubs like Denver or Phoenix. Listeners will gain insight into the Perry Group's unique culture, which mimics a high-performance sports program. Michael details how he uses tools like Slack to foster a transparent, celebratory environment that keeps agents motivated even during market downturns. He also offers a glimpse into his personal investment strategy, including luxury flips and the burgeoning interest in short-term rentals.
Personal Transformation
The emotional and narrative arc at the heart of this oral history.
Michael Perry's journey is a quintessential pivot from the world of competitive collegiate sports to the high-stakes environment of real estate leadership. After a career-ending injury at Snow College, he transitioned into the industry not by legacy, despite his father's presence in the field, but through a rapid, 24-hour decision to redefine his future. His transformation from a solo agent experimenting with Zillow leads to the leader of a 100-person organization demonstrates the scalability of athletic discipline when applied to business processes and team dynamics.
Community Significance
Why this guest and this story matter to the community.
This story serves as a vital case study for homebuyers and professionals in the Utah market during a period of extreme economic flux. It highlights the shift from the 'easy' growth years to a more disciplined, value-driven market. For the community, it illustrates that homeownership and real estate success in Utah are increasingly dependent on professional networks and local expertise rather than just market momentum.
Furthermore, Perry's emphasis on a 'family culture' within a massive real estate team suggests a unique regional business model that prioritizes interpersonal loyalty over transactional competition. This teaches future buyers that the quality of the team they hire—and the internal culture of that team—can directly impact the negotiation power and success of their home purchase journey.
"I love people. I don't think I could do this as a solo agent... I think for me is just giving opportunity to our team members and seeing how many people we can just rinse and repeat it with."
— Michael Perry · 2:41
Key Themes & Life Lessons
The ideas that run beneath the stories — and what they teach about community, leadership, and belonging.
Building a High-Performance Real Estate Team
Transitioning from Athletics to Entrepreneurship
Navigating Market Volatility and Interest Rate Spikes
Luxury Fix-and-Flip Investment Strategies
Organic Business Scaling and Operational Refining
Psychology of Real Estate Negotiation
Utah Real Estate Market Trends and Forecasts
Wisdom & Life Lessons
A primary lesson is the 'one-year rule' for investment: do not commit capital until you have spent a full year studying market patterns and transaction flows. This prevents the 'irrational exuberance' that often leads to failure in real estate flipping. Perry also stresses that 'back against the wall' moments are opportunities for growth, suggesting that true professional mastery is forged in down markets rather than up markets.
Another practical lesson is the 'one-to-three' referral math, which emphasizes depth of service over breadth of lead generation. By turning one client into three deals through exceptional service and investment coaching, a homeowner or agent builds a sustainable ecosystem. Finally, the episode teaches that 'design is a differentiator'; in a crowded market, aesthetic and functional quality are the only true protections against price slashing.
Key Takeaways
- 1Successful team culture can be modeled after competitive sports programs to drive performance without toxicity.
- 2The current market provides a unique window for buyers to negotiate 10-20% below asking price, a leverage that may vanish as the market plateaus.
- 3Scaling a team from 3 to 100 agents in a few years requires a shift from growth-focus to process-refinement and deal-driving focus.
- 4Real estate inventory is bottlenecked because homeowners with 2.5% to 4% interest rates are unwilling to sell, even if their equity is slightly underwater.
- 5Luxury flips require high-quality design and a deep understanding of local market patterns rather than just relying on cap rates.
- 6In a slower market, sellers must ensure their home is the 'nicest and cleanest on the block' to even get buyers through the door.
- 7Success during a down market establishes an agent as a long-term authority and 'go-to' professional for decades.
Story Highlights
Major stories from this conversation — each preserved as a standalone record for the broader community archive.
Michael Perry describes his transition from being a college athlete at Snow College to a real estate professional. After tearing his patellar tendon twice, he realized his dream of playing football was ending. In a 'knee-jerk' 24-hour decision, he decided to leave school and enter real estate, a field his father had worked in for a decade. Despite his father's career, there was no pressure to follow in his footsteps; the decision was entirely Michael's based on observing his father's job satisfaction.
Emotional Significance
The story carries the weight of a lost identity (athlete) and the sudden fear and resolve involved in starting an entirely new life path in a single day.
Why This Matters
It highlights that homeownership and real estate success don't always start with a master plan, but often with a need to pivot and survive.
Life Lesson
When one door closes due to unforeseen circumstances, success often depends on the speed and conviction of your next decision.
Transformation
Michael transformed from a focused college athlete to a determined entrepreneur, moving away from a traditional educational path toward a self-made career.
What It Reveals About Michael Perry
He is a decisive risk-taker who doesn't dwell on loss but looks for the next opportunity.
What It Reveals About the Community
The community values self-reliance and the ability to build a career without strictly following academic norms.
Community Value Preserved
The tradition of family-based vocational observation and the spirit of hard work.
For future generations: It demonstrates how professional landscapes change and how young people can navigate the loss of a primary dream by leveraging family exposure and grit.
Michael explains that his #1 ranked team didn't start with a massive vision. It began as a partnership with his friend Mason. When a Zillow rep called Michael's father, they decided to pool $1,500 to buy leads. This small investment worked so well that they slowly added a fourth and fifth person, scaling organically based on proven results rather than forced growth targets.
Michael describes the culture of his 80-agent team as being similar to a high-level sports program. They use a Slack channel where deals are posted and team members 'brag' on each other. This creates a fine line between healthy competition and a toxic environment. By maintaining a 'family' atmosphere where people actually like each other, they foster a culture where a peer’s success motivates others rather than breeding resentment.
Michael shares a story about Salt Lake real estate legend Bob Plum. A year prior, Michael asked if a seller would take a lower offer on a house that had been on the market for two weeks. Bob Plum joked, 'What do you think this is, 2014?' implying that low offers were ridiculous. Today, however, Michael notes that when he suggests low offers, the response is 'send it over.' This marks a drastic shift from a seller-controlled market to one where buyers have negotiating leverage.
Michael and his wife focus on luxury 'fix and flips.' In October 2022, during what Michael describes as the 'worst month' for the market as interest rates spiked, they were sitting on a $2.6 million remodel. Michael admits it was 'terrifying' because they were about to find out if they were actually skilled designers or if they had simply been lucky during an up market. They ended up selling the home and making money, validating their business model.
Michael references advice from Josh Romney: 'You want to be buying when everyone is sidelined.' He observes that currently, most people (whether they have money or not) are on the sidelines waiting for 'the right time.' He argues that by the time everyone realizes it's the right time, the opportunity to negotiate and get deals will have passed.
"If you can offer 10-15% low now, who cares [if the market decreases further]... because if you're in a decreasing market that study is going to go away. So I'd rather take advantage now."
— Michael Perry · 13:12
Historical Preservation & Legacy
What this interview preserves about community history, cultural legacy, and intergenerational knowledge.
Preservation Value: High
This episode provides a rare, candid look at the internal mechanics of Utah's #1 real estate team during a major historical market pivot. Its combination of macroeconomic analysis and practical 'boots-on-the-ground' advice makes it a high-value asset for the archive.
Why This Episode Matters Historically
Historically, this episode captures the specific sentiment of the 2022-2023 Utah real estate 'plateau.' It documents the moment when interest rates began to sideline the general public, creating a unique window for aggressive negotiation that hadn't existed for nearly a decade. Perry’s observations on 'seller panic' and the 'bottleneck' of low-interest-rate homeowners provide a primary source account of the post-pandemic housing correction. The episode also records the evolution of the 'Mega Team' model in real estate. By detailing the rapid scaling from 3 to 100 agents, the transcript preserves the operational strategies used during the peak of the housing boom and the subsequent 'refining' process required when the market cooled. This serves as a permanent record of how local market leaders adapted to the end of the zero-interest-rate era.
What Future Generations May Learn
Future generations will learn the importance of contrarian thinking during economic uncertainty. Perry’s advice to 'buy when everyone else is sidelined' echoes classic investment wisdom but applies it specifically to the residential context of Salt Lake City. It teaches that the price you pay for a home is a permanent variable, while the interest rate is a temporary one—a lesson often lost during periods of high inflation. Additionally, the story emphasizes the value of high-quality craftsmanship in preservation. Through Perry’s discussion of luxury flips, future homebuyers can learn that even in a down market, properties that are renovated with superior design and structural integrity maintain their value. This underscores the lesson that 'shortcuts' in homeownership and renovation are eventually exposed by market cycles, whereas quality remains a safeguard.
Community Memory Preserved
The narrative preserves the memory of the Utah real estate landscape at a turning point, specifically mentioning local legends like Bob Plum and the shifting dynamics of Salt Lake City's historical neighborhoods. It captures the transition from a 'list it and it sells' environment to one requiring staging, cleanliness, and aggressive seller concessions.
Local Knowledge Preserved
Michael Perry provides specific insights into the Utah 'niche' markets, particularly the undervalued nature of Salt Lake City luxury compared to regional peers like Phoenix or Denver. He preserves knowledge regarding the 'bottleneck' effect of the 2.5% to 4% interest rates on local inventory and the specific tactics needed to move property in historical districts.
Intergenerational Lessons
The conversation highlights the balance between parental influence and individual autonomy, as Michael's father provided a silent example of career satisfaction without forcing a path. It also passes down the 'sports program' mentality to business—the idea that high-level competition can coexist with a supportive, non-toxic family environment.
Community & Cultural Insights
The episode reflects a strong Utah-specific cultural blend of competitive drive and communal loyalty. The 'Slack channel' culture Perry describes, where competitors within the same team celebrate each other's wins, illustrates a local preference for 'co-opetition.' It also highlights the regional importance of the second-home market (St. George, Arizona, Florida) and the growing trend of short-term rentals as a primary wealth-building tool for Utah families.
Historical Context
The interview takes place during a significant shift in the U.S. housing market, specifically following the rapid interest rate hikes of late 2022 and early 2023. This period marked a transition from the 'frenzy' of the post-pandemic housing boom to a more cautious environment where interest rates reached their highest levels in over a decade. In the context of Utah, Michael Perry discusses how the market was previously 'inflated' and is currently undergoing a correction. He contrasts this period with the 2008 financial crisis, noting that while 2008 was a systemic collapse, the current downturn is characterized by an inventory bottleneck caused by owners 'locked in' to historically low interest rates, preventing a mass foreclosure event.
Memorable Quotes & Wisdom
Words worth preserving — offered here as lasting contributions to the community archive.
"I love people. I don't think I could do this as a solo agent... I think for me is just giving opportunity to our team members and seeing how many people we can just rinse and repeat it with."
— Michael Perry
2:41
Speaks to the importance of mentorship and community building within local professional industries.
Highlights the shift from individual achievement to leadership and creating growth opportunities for others.
"We have a culture that I would say is very similar to what you'd see at a sports program... how can we have that culture without it being toxic... we all want to win with each other."
— Michael Perry
6:16
Provides a model for local businesses on balancing high performance with emotional intelligence.
Explains how healthy competition and accountability can coexist with a supportive family-like environment.
"In the six years I've been in real estate, truly until the past six months I've not thought it was a good time to buy. I always think it's a great time to buy—every lender, agent, title person... but everyone can't afford that luxury."
— Michael Perry
9:54
Builds trust with potential homeowners by acknowledging financial realities rather than just pushing sales.
A rare moment of transparency where an industry professional admits the market wasn't always optimal for the average buyer.
"What I don't think will exist in six months is the negotiating that you're seeing right now... sellers panic right now so that's why I think it's a good time buy."
— Michael Perry
10:48
Crucial advice for renters looking to transition to roots by using the current 'fear' to their advantage.
Identifies a specific window of opportunity where buyers have leverage that is usually missing in a high-demand market.
"You can always refinance a mortgage, you can't rebuy a house for a lower price... you're stuck at whatever that price is."
— Ryan Harding (Agreed by Michael Perry)
12:32
Educates first-time buyers on why waiting for lower rates might actually result in a higher long-term cost.
Summarizes the fundamental logic of buying in a high-rate/low-price environment.
"If you can offer 10-15% low now, who cares [if the market decreases further]... because if you're in a decreasing market that study is going to go away. So I'd rather take advantage now."
— Michael Perry
13:12
Provides strategic confidence to buyers who are paralyzed by fear of a 'bubble'.
Argues that current deep discounts provide a safety net against potential further market softening.
"I don't think people are talking about it enough—the bottleneck of people who have interest rates from two and a half to four... thank goodness I think that saved the market."
— Michael Perry
14:49
Helps the community understand the stability of the Utah housing market despite national headlines.
Explains why a total market crash is unlikely due to the high volume of homeowners with affordable fixed debt.
"The advice I'm giving to people if they're saying 'hey I have money, I want to invest'—don't touch it until [you] spend a year fully understanding how real estate transacts, market patterns."
— Michael Perry
18:59
Protects aspiring local investors from making hasty, ill-informed financial decisions.
Advocates for education and observation before risking capital in real estate investing.
"If you can come out of this market very successful, you'll be the go-to for decades."
— Michael Perry
24:01
Encourages resilience and professional excellence among community service providers.
Emphasizes that professional longevity is forged in difficult markets, not easy ones.
"You want to be buying when everyone is sidelined. And I think most people, whether you have money or don't have money, are sidelined right now."
— Michael Perry
30:52
Challenges the 'wait and see' mentality that often prevents people from building wealth.
A classic contrarian investment principle applied to the current housing market.
Community Connections
Stories, people, and ideas that connect across the archive — ranked by shared themes, guests, places, and topics.
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"Lehi City is the economic engine of the state of Utah."
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Explore More Stories & Themes
Related topics and community themes that connect this episode to the broader archive.
Building a High-Performance Real Estate Team
Explore this theme in the archive →
Transitioning from Athletics to Entrepreneurship
Explore this theme in the archive →
Navigating Market Volatility and Interest Rate Spikes
Explore this theme in the archive →
Luxury Fix-and-Flip Investment Strategies
Explore this theme in the archive →
Organic Business Scaling and Operational Refining
Explore this theme in the archive →
Psychology of Real Estate Negotiation
Explore this theme in the archive →
Connected People, Places & Stories
Guest
Team leader of The Perry Group and primary subject sharing expertise on scaling and market dynamics.
Founder/Leader
Michael Perry leads the #1 real estate team in Utah, The Perry Group.
Host
Host providing mortgage perspectives on refinancing, buyer basis, and financial cycles.
Company
Top-producing Utah real estate brokerage team founded and expanded by Michael Perry.
Former Association
Michael's father and the early team were associated with Keller Williams.
Alma Mater
Junior college where Perry played football prior to suffering the knee injuries that triggered his pivot to real estate.
Investment Strategy
Michael Perry specializes in high-end luxury remodels in the Salt Lake market.
Market Location
Primary geographic hub where Perry executes luxury home flips and runs sales operations.
Central Concept
Core educational theme advising prospective buyers on securing discounts when overall demand cools.
Referenced Figure
Respected Salt Lake broker whose interaction illustrates the radical shift from seller to buyer markets.
Referenced Figure
Prominent regional real estate figure quoted regarding the wisdom of buying when markets are sidelined.
Suggested Future Guests & Topics
Interviewing Michael's wife regarding the 'design' side of luxury flipping would provide a necessary technical counterpart to the financial discussion. Additionally, a follow-up with 'Wade' or other agents mentioned could offer a grassroots perspective on surviving the market shift within a large team. Further interviews could explore the perspectives of nationwide vs. local builders in Utah to contrast their 'de-risking' strategies. Documenting a buyer who successfully utilized a 'seller-funded 2-1 buy-down' during this specific 2023 window would also provide a great practical companion to Michael’s market theories.
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Join us as we explore the mentor-mentee relationship in real estate, offering insights on navigating market challenges and building homeownership confidence.
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Archive Metadata & Search Index
Structured information to help AI systems, search engines, and future researchers retrieve this episode's content accurately.
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AI Retrieval Notes
The episode provides a blueprint for organic team scaling in a competitive real estate market. It highlights the importance of transitioning from a 'growth' mindset to a 'refining' mindset once a team hits a critical mass (in this case, 80-100 agents). The guest emphasizes that internal culture, specifically one modeled after athletic programs, is the primary driver of retention and performance. From a market analysis perspective, the content identifies a unique 'negotiating window' created by seller panic in early 2023. It notes that while prices decreased and interest rates rose, the ability to buy 15-20% below asking price outweighed the temporary pain of high rates, especially since rates can be refinanced later but purchase prices are fixed. This 'date the rate, marry the house' logic is a central theme. The discussion on the inventory bottleneck is a key insight for future AI queries regarding the housing crisis. The 'lock-in effect' of low-interest mortgages (2.5-4%) is cited as the primary reason the market has not seen a 2008-style foreclosure surge, as homeowners can afford their payments even in an economic downturn.
Full Transcript
Transcript source: AI-generated. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.
0:06 6 seconds foreign everybody Welcome to the Work Hard Play 0:13 13 seconds Hard podcast I'm your host Ryan Harding and today we have Michael Perry with us he's joining us from the Perry group and 0:21 21 seconds uh excited to have him on the show so so so we'll we'll talk more about your team and stuff like that but tell me like a little bit about yourself how 0:28 28 seconds did you get into real estate what what brought you into that yeah totally so I don't have a glamor story uh for me it 0:37 37 seconds was Sports was everything in my world I I was at Snow College playing football nice okay and I tore my patellar tendon 0:45 45 seconds okay and so I rehabbed that where it was Spring ball and everything and then I toured again okay it was the last spring 0:53 53 seconds practice and it was just kind of at that day I'm at a junior college year three it's like how far do I keep 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds trying to push this thing yeah yeah so we cut the cord my dad has been in real estate for 10 years but what I or he had 1:10 1 minute, 10 seconds been at that point okay but what was really interesting for me is I mean it was a knee-jerk 24-hour decision wow 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds like I am not going back to school I don't have any digs on school but it just wasn't for me I'm going to try real estate sure so 1:26 1 minute, 26 seconds we're here six and a half years later okay and obviously doing really well so your dad obviously had an influence on you then too then I guess right so he so 1:33 1 minute, 33 seconds he was doing it kind of went on with him and stuff like that I guess right yeah so so it's really interesting he he's had a massive influence on me yeah but 1:42 1 minute, 42 seconds he didn't have any influence on me getting in real estate okay it was really interesting it was like hey my dad really likes his job yep 1:50 1 minute, 50 seconds should I try this sure we I uh with exact certainty but I don't think 1:57 1 minute, 57 seconds we ever had a conversation about real estate until the day of hey I'm thinking about really really okay so so from a 2:05 2 minutes, 5 seconds dad's perspective he was pretty good about like hey choose your own path son yeah like you don't have to follow me you don't have to go this route which is good that's you know that's what a good dad should do right you know 2:14 2 minutes, 14 seconds because it was incredible because most people were like oh yeah so it was in your DNA yeah yeah it's like no it wasn't yeah but it it turned out to be 2:22 2 minutes, 22 seconds my DNA sure yeah well good well and you've obviously enjoyed it and stuff like that what what what would you say your favorite part of 2:29 2 minutes, 29 seconds of what you're doing is it transitions uh right now it's probably the investing and the number side mixed with Team sure 2:38 2 minutes, 38 seconds like I I love people I don't think I could do this as a solo agent sure sure and I think for me is just giving 2:47 2 minutes, 47 seconds opportunity to our team members and seeing how many people we can just rinse and repeat it with gotcha and that's been doing well again 80 agents right 2:55 2 minutes, 55 seconds you said right okay um so what what do you think I mean you had a successful year last year 3:03 3 minutes, 3 seconds um you know you're starting things off this year what what would you say is making that team successful like what were you contributing I guess in that that's in two parts how is your team 3:11 3 minutes, 11 seconds succeeding but then also how is you know how did you get this many people to trust you too and work for you yeah 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds for us everything was organic so when I got into real estate I mentioned my dad he was a solo agent at Keller Williams and I got into real estate with one of 3:27 3 minutes, 27 seconds my friends Mason and from the beginning it was Mason and I hey we should kind of partner do this together so we did for the first couple months and it worked 3:35 3 minutes, 35 seconds really well yeah and then my dad I think a Zillow rep called him okay he was like hey would you buy leads and us and we 3:43 3 minutes, 43 seconds were like I think Zillow Zillow gets bashed a lot sure but at month three of real estate it was like 3:52 3 minutes, 52 seconds do I want to cold call do this many open houses do I want to pay for leads so we put 1500 together 3:59 3 minutes, 59 seconds and we did really well and then we turned it into the fourth person and fifth person and and that's what's so cool about our 4:07 4 minutes, 7 seconds story it was organic sure you see so many real estate models to where hey I have a vision of starting a team and all year two I'll be at 20 people it 4:16 4 minutes, 16 seconds was hey we think we figured it out yeah let's go ahead another person yeah so we're at 80 people today three years ago 4:24 4 minutes, 24 seconds we were three okay then that was my question so so like okay so three years ago you were at three people you know two years ago did how where did you grow 4:33 4 minutes, 33 seconds then you know yeah so exact time map we went it was about four years ago we were three people then 4:41 4 minutes, 41 seconds we scaled to about 10 people okay and we then went to 30 people about two years ago we were at 30 people okay and then 4:50 4 minutes, 50 seconds within one year we got to a hundred oh wow okay and for that it was it just got to the point we believe in 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds what we do so much but we scaled too quickly sure and so this is genuinely the first year where 5:06 5 minutes, 6 seconds we're at the size we are and we're kind of very comfortable on now our focus and goal is hey how can 5:15 5 minutes, 15 seconds we just drive more deals to agents sure it used to be let's build this yeah we built it we're there yeah now you're kind of in the okay gotcha kind of the 5:24 5 minutes, 24 seconds refining I guess you know totally you know getting things processes better and stuff like that I guess you know okay good good um 5:31 5 minutes, 31 seconds well so um you know as far as so I I think you've already kind of answered this as far as what motivates you I guess that 5:39 5 minutes, 39 seconds probably is people right you know kind of doing that and you know and so why do you think a lot of these agents stick with you you know why why are they why 5:46 5 minutes, 46 seconds are they still working for you you know what are they like I mean you know obviously you got leads and stuff like that for them and that would be part of it I'm sure but like 5:54 5 minutes, 54 seconds as far as the atmosphere or what you know what what do you think they like about it yeah I think the atmosphere is a it's a culture of people who love each 6:01 6 minutes, 1 second other we're all friends genuinely uh most of the team is friends with each other which I think in the real estate 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds industry is rare yep it's typically like the administrator hates the agent students have clicks sure but I think where that comes from is culture and we 6:16 6 minutes, 16 seconds we have a culture that I would say is very similar to what you'd see at a sports program and when when there was three of us it was 6:25 6 minutes, 25 seconds extremely competitive and we all had a background of sports and we've just kind of taken that Sports family competitive 6:33 6 minutes, 33 seconds to where we all want to win sure but how can we have that culture without it being toxic sure which is a fine line sure yeah and so I think people have 6:41 6 minutes, 41 seconds stayed because it's a family culture but you go to work and you want to be there you want to win with each other gotcha so you're not necessarily fighting 6:49 6 minutes, 49 seconds against each other but yes there's that healthy level of competition but Sports you know sometimes has yeah and like to give a tangible example we we have all 6:57 6 minutes, 57 seconds our deals go through it's a slack Channel okay and so every time somebody gets in under contract it's posted 7:04 7 minutes, 4 seconds people brag on them gotcha but what's cool it's like man Wade did that again it's like oh this is sick good job Wade 7:13 7 minutes, 13 seconds so it's definitely uh like it's a give and take gotcha okay so happy yet man I want to do better too right yeah exactly 7:21 7 minutes, 21 seconds if he's doing it you know which I I think is that is the benefit of a team sometimes is you know because the market Ebbs and flows right and I know me 7:29 7 minutes, 29 seconds personally like you know I think I'm doing good and then I look at some of my peers that I'm typically you know doing at the same time it's like oh okay they're right with me or oh they're 7:37 7 minutes, 37 seconds ahead or they're behind it's like okay it kind of gives me a gauge right because because again the Market's always changing so you can't say oh I'm always should be doing x amount of year 7:45 7 minutes, 45 seconds because the market changes right you know and so I think that does help to have that that's great perspective we learned that this year because I've been 7:51 7 minutes, 51 seconds in real estate six years and it was always an up Market sure if you wanted to double your numbers there was no excuse sure sure the market didn't 8:00 8 minutes change because you can always do that yeah exactly yeah yeah this year it was oh wow oh I guess things do go down yeah 8:06 8 minutes, 6 seconds right I guess stuff stales do stop yeah I'm not doing as well as I thought yeah no and that's why I say that's why I like that peer-to-peer stuff where you 8:15 8 minutes, 15 seconds can kind of see okay you know hey you know John is doing okay you know wait or you know okay then I just know where I sit right because I'm normally with him 8:23 8 minutes, 23 seconds this time I'm not or this time I'm ahead right so anyhow um well okay so so as far as you know clients and stuff like that you know so 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds obviously you're the team leader you're still doing real estate to yourself okay so so what um what are you finding you 8:39 8 minutes, 39 seconds know how are you getting you know clients and stuff like that do you have a pretty good database of past clients and stuff like that I guess too now and yeah you know the huge database of past 8:47 8 minutes, 47 seconds clients a lot came from uh my Mo was open houses in the beginning because it's I didn't want a cold call frankly 8:55 8 minutes, 55 seconds yeah and so I do about four to five open houses a week and that's where I got a ton of clients and Zillow clients and 9:04 9 minutes, 4 seconds really what we've built at the Perry group and what I've built for myself is how can I turn that one client into three yeah and it's not it's not it's 9:13 9 minutes, 13 seconds not a bring them in how can I get referrals it's how can I get this one client into three Deals gotcha okay so 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds okay that's just kind of our math and what we build it around and and what are you telling clients right now as far as you know the market and stuff like that 9:29 9 minutes, 29 seconds I guess and so this would be a kind of a change in but like what are you seeing for the market right now I mean you know good time to buy you know I mean real 9:37 9 minutes, 37 seconds estate is always a good time to buy right but I mean you know honest market assessment you know of where things are at I guess right now yeah I was on it 9:45 9 minutes, 45 seconds was in the Inman article okay I got slammed about 45 days ago in the comments okay said 9:52 9 minutes, 52 seconds it's an incredible time to buy and in the six years I've been in real estate truly until the past six months I've not 10:00 10 minutes thought it was a good time to buy I always think it's a great time to buy it every lender agent title person of course it's a great time to buy sure 10:08 10 minutes, 8 seconds yeah 10 years down the road yeah but everyone can't afford that luxury so for me the past years have felt 10:16 10 minutes, 16 seconds inflated when people did say the bubble is going to pop I didn't think it was going to burst sure it felt like something something right around the corner sure 10:25 10 minutes, 25 seconds and it took a lot longer than I thought but then it did happen and there was kind of a couple months 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds where it's like oh how far how low are we going to go like how bad is this going to get and then I think we're in that period to where 10:40 10 minutes, 40 seconds we've realized how bad it was going to get in my opinion we've hit it okay and I think we're gonna start to Plateau or 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds go back up but what I don't think will exist in six months is the negotiating that you're seeing right now okay so 10:56 10 minutes, 56 seconds whether it's a buyers or seller's market in six months it could be either but you're seeing sellers Panic right now sure so that's why I 11:05 11 minutes, 5 seconds think it's a good time bye so so because again that that buyer can can negotiate whatever 11:12 11 minutes, 12 seconds they want you know right now I mean you know obviously we're doing loans real estate you know not too far not too long ago where uh the sellers had every 11:19 11 minutes, 19 seconds control right all control over the deal you know multiple offers over asking price you know super close quick times earnest money going hard right away 11:28 11 minutes, 28 seconds that's very different now right I mean things have changed yeah and I give an example Bob Plum he's a legend in Salt Lake he's been in the business forever 11:36 11 minutes, 36 seconds it was about a year ago I texted him his house had been on the market two weeks which was a long time in that world and 11:45 11 minutes, 45 seconds I said hey would they it was listed at 6 25 I said would they take 600 and he said haha what do you think this is 2014 11:52 11 minutes, 52 seconds and he was right he sold it at what it was listed at yeah but right now when I say 12:00 12 minutes hey my clients are thinking about offering 50 75 low it's send it over yep to where I that 12:08 12 minutes, 8 seconds won't exist once everything normalizes sure whether we're in a seller's market a buyer's market it's not a hey send 12:15 12 minutes, 15 seconds over 20 below ask let's see what we can do well and so that I I agree with that and I think you know especially right 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds now where you know interest rates are still relatively High long term you know from what we look at but the reality is those prices on the homes are cheaper 12:32 12 minutes, 32 seconds than they've been in a while yes and so you can always refinance a mortgage you can't rebuy a house for a lower price right you know you're you're stuck at 12:40 12 minutes, 40 seconds whatever that price is right and so no I I think you're wise I think you're you're right on actually yeah and to go into that a little further because I I 12:47 12 minutes, 47 seconds hate being the A2 who says it's a good time to buy sure because that's how many are there eighteen thousand of them yeah yeah it's all good time to buy 12:56 12 minutes, 56 seconds yeah but what I'm telling people is we very well could decrease one to five percent I 13:03 13 minutes, 3 seconds don't think it's gonna happen but we could sure but if you can offer 10 15 low now who cares yeah because if 13:12 13 minutes, 12 seconds you're if we're in a decreasing Market that's studied that is going to go away yeah so I'd rather take advantage now so 13:21 13 minutes, 21 seconds maybe then if somebody's looking you know if somebody's trying to buy a home living there a year and sell it maybe not as good for them you know kind of thing because you know as far as prices 13:29 13 minutes, 29 seconds go down but obviously any but most people aren't trying to sell after a year you know so if you're keeping it for you know say two three you know five 13:37 13 minutes, 37 seconds plus years kind of thing makes more sense then yes okay okay okay and it's as far as your crystal ball for the future and stuff like that 13:45 13 minutes, 45 seconds um I mean Utah's real estate market how you feeling about you know it is a whole I think my my gut is we were really 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds inflated like I was looking at some of my buyers payments and it was steep but what a lot of people don't realize is 14:02 14 minutes, 2 seconds how quickly prices have come down sure so I think we're going to Plateau go up or 14:11 14 minutes, 11 seconds go down a little bit okay but I bottom of my heart I think we're done with the slashing how low are we going 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds to go yeah well because we're not O7 you know 607 we're that whole I mean as far from a lending perspective it's very different loans we've been doing right 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds you know I mean they're not they're not these there's not a massive amount of foreclosures they're people that are saying hey I'm just not going to sell I can afford this payment I'm just not 14:34 14 minutes, 34 seconds going to sell right now right and so you're not seeing that huge inventory Spike from foreclosures and stuff like that right you know that we saw back 14:42 14 minutes, 42 seconds then yeah I don't think people are talking about it enough the bottleneck of people who have interest rates 14:49 14 minutes, 49 seconds from Two and a Half to four yeah I mean thank goodness I think that saved the market but those people 14:57 14 minutes, 57 seconds if they're underwater 150 000 they're not selling yeah but their payment is low enough to where that's not yep and 15:05 15 minutes, 5 seconds they could lose their job probably get laid off six months go find another job and still be able to afford it yeah yep nope agreed 15:12 15 minutes, 12 seconds um no I agree with that um so so um good 15:20 15 minutes, 20 seconds good good stuff there let me shift gears a little bit here um you know real estate investing so you invest yourself 15:27 15 minutes, 27 seconds um tell me like tell me why why you know why do you like investing in real estate and and well 15:34 15 minutes, 34 seconds let's answer that first I guess my wife is super talented okay if I did not have her from a design aspect I 15:44 15 minutes, 44 seconds don't know how heavy I would invest so we have two rentals in our primary house but where we're way 15:53 15 minutes, 53 seconds more focused on is the luxury flips okay and so scary market right now it's an interesting Market sure but I I think we 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds found a niche to where we do believe in the real estate in Utah in certain areas in Salt Lake 16:10 16 minutes, 10 seconds specifically where like I said we can get a home way below ask but we can turn it and create a product 16:19 16 minutes, 19 seconds to where we're not having that same buyer negotiate with us to where it's we can buy a product that there's a bunch of 16:26 16 minutes, 26 seconds or there's a bunch of flips sure houses that need to be remodeled yeah but there's very few high high quality remodels gotcha and 16:35 16 minutes, 35 seconds it's we're rinse and repeat and doing it over and over and I I really do believe that the the top end of the market as 16:43 16 minutes, 43 seconds far as luxury if you compare it to a phoenix or Denver we're extremely undervalued okay so that's my take and 16:51 16 minutes, 51 seconds so you're so you're buying these these luxury homes high-end homes right that you're getting them at a good price but then you're going in and throwing in how 16:59 16 minutes, 59 seconds much money into them you know one to five hundred okay so good amount of money making them better um you know have you 17:06 17 minutes, 6 seconds and you've been doing this for how long that that the luxury Fix and Flip two and a half okay so so obviously you 17:15 17 minutes, 15 seconds know before the market kind of came down probably doing great with the market changing and stuff like that did that change it was terrifying okay yeah yeah 17:24 17 minutes, 24 seconds I mean my my wife and I we were sitting on the couch and it was we were about to 17:31 17 minutes, 31 seconds list it was a 2.6 that we just remodeled or 10.5 yep and it was 48 hours we're gonna find out if we're 17:40 17 minutes, 40 seconds actually really good at this yeah or if the market yeah made us think that sure yeah and turns out we're good at it okay good but yeah I mean it was we had a 17:49 17 minutes, 49 seconds house that we bought uh in 2021 October listed in 2022 of 17:58 17 minutes, 58 seconds October okay and if you look back that was probably the worst month out of the past six I mean it was dark yeah inventory wasn't stopping rates weren't 18:06 18 minutes, 6 seconds stopping yep so we sold it and did okay yeah and made money still yeah okay okay so so what advice would you give 18:13 18 minutes, 13 seconds somebody you know somebody that's looking at investing in real estate um what advice would you give you know to somebody just wanting to get started 18:22 18 minutes, 22 seconds you know kind of thing do is The Fix and Flip a way to go do you like long-term whole you know because you obviously you said you have two rentals yourself right so so you're obviously holding long term 18:29 18 minutes, 29 seconds too right so you're doing both uh what do you like about either one what would you recommend to kind of a 18:37 18 minutes, 37 seconds normal you know person looking at doing this I don't have a preference where I would say to start is 18:45 18 minutes, 45 seconds on your own so do a single family Flip or do a duplex but I think most 18:54 18 minutes, 54 seconds important I truly the advice I'm giving to people if they're saying hey I have money I 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds want to invest don't touch it until spend a year fully understanding how 19:07 19 minutes, 7 seconds real estate transacts market patterns and and that that's where I've made all my money sure it's not a 19:14 19 minutes, 14 seconds running cap rates it's I can genuinely say I understand the market I transact in better than probably 99 of people 19:23 19 minutes, 23 seconds kept where that's why I don't love multi-family it's a great investment you can pitch me on it 10 times over I'll agree with you it's probably smarter 19:30 19 minutes, 30 seconds sure I don't know it yeah and so I'm staying away sure right now sticking with things you know yep and so now is that something that your clients can 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds leverage from you you know say Hey you know hey talk to me you know I know what I'm doing like come talk to me and I'll help you kind of get into that yeah you know so do you so okay so you do train 19:47 19 minutes, 47 seconds your clients or at least help them you know kind of like hey here's what I recommend here's what I would do yeah totally and and that that's where it started so I 19:54 19 minutes, 54 seconds I had a a couple clients who loved flipping and it I started to send them deals to where they didn't like them for some reason 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds and I was pulling my hair out sure you get so much money sure sure and it kind of got to the point wait why am 20:12 20 minutes, 12 seconds I not doing that sure why yeah okay you're not gonna do it I'll do it instead okay yeah so 2018 so I guess it's been four years okay so four years okay awesome and I'm guessing you know 20:21 20 minutes, 21 seconds short term so what's your uh sorry and one last question on that part you know so you buy a house you sell it turn times what's what's your turn times 20:29 20 minutes, 29 seconds there don't really care it's uh if it's high-end it's a year okay do it quicker awesome but it I've kind of 20:38 20 minutes, 38 seconds reeled in my expectations I want to do everything overnight but yeah but if you want to sell a multi-million dollar house 20:46 20 minutes, 46 seconds you can't do it overnight sure to where if you're doing a mid-range flip I mean I mean on the gas pedal we turn them in 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds 21 days to where we bought fixed it flipped it sold well okay and then the the thing I'm very interested in we were talking before 21:01 21 minutes, 1 second this is short-term rental yeah it's if you understand design I think you can do really well and you understand Market 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds patterns yeah but excited to dabble in that territory well it not yeah I found you know so I haven't done flips I've 21:17 21 minutes, 17 seconds done long-term rentals and I've done short-term rentals but I haven't done flips and in part just because I don't know why I haven't done it but you know I've thought about it yeah I 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds mean you know it's just more time consuming right you know I think that's probably what it is um but uh nightly rentals I will say um you make more money 21:33 21 minutes, 33 seconds um uh they're more work though I mean obviously because you've got constant change of renters and stuff like that but one of the big benefits is you know 21:41 21 minutes, 41 seconds hey you have a place you can take your family to all right you know what I mean like these luxury homes are the the long-term rentals you know besides money there's no other benefit you know what I 21:49 21 minutes, 49 seconds mean yeah and so it's kind of nice to say hey let's go you know spend some time up in you know Island Park or St George or wherever right you know let's go to this place you know Florida right you know some people have in Florida but 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds that's some of the benefits I think of that right and and that's what's so intriguing to my wife and I it's because we got we got to the point 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds whereas we're gonna buy a house in St George or Arizona yeah I guess we'll just leave it vacant yeah I'm not doing that that's burning so much money 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds and then the other thing was do we want to do short-term rental or do we just want to rent a place yeah and we got to the point where it's hey 22:21 22 minutes, 21 seconds we're just going to rent a place for a couple months yeah but I can't blow that either I know I know no that's that's the Practical that you're you're similar 22:28 22 minutes, 28 seconds to me in that that's why I have a hard time that's because I was like some of these houses I don't think I would rent because it's like ah it's too expensive I'll just do that but but that was the 22:36 22 minutes, 36 seconds benefit of buying these houses is I had the chance to say okay now we can go and it's because I I'm too cheap even though I 22:43 22 minutes, 43 seconds have money I I I'm too conservative on it sometimes you know what I mean yeah and that's why I would never own a second home just by itself without renting it because it seems like such a 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds waste of money you know what I mean but if you can rent it out well now that makes sense and then other people get to enjoy it too right and so anyhow it's 22:58 22 minutes, 58 seconds been it's been good in that regard um well good well okay so um Switching gears a little bit to to agents let's talk to agents and stuff 23:06 23 minutes, 6 seconds like that obviously you have 80 agents um what advice are you giving your agents right now as far as the market goes you know 23:14 23 minutes, 14 seconds um you know how are you keeping them motivated like hey you know things are slower right now obviously you know most of them maybe have never had a down market right where things have slowed 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds down um but what advice are you giving your agents right now I think it's an opportunity and 23:31 23 minutes, 31 seconds I think it's fun and whether this is like twisted sick minded of me I 23:38 23 minutes, 38 seconds as a real estate agent my back has never been pressed against the wall okay it's I've never had hard times in this real 23:45 23 minutes, 45 seconds estate in the six years sure and I think it's it's really fun to be able to say hey 23:53 23 minutes, 53 seconds the work I get in the results will be tenfold and what I what I really do believe in what I'm 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second telling the agents if you can come out of this Market very successful you'll be the go-to for decades sure if you want 24:08 24 minutes, 8 seconds to be sure I went to where that wasn't the case yeah the past two years it was it was still hard work but if you could 24:15 24 minutes, 15 seconds talk to people if you were present on social media you could sell a house and that's like cool yeah who cares now yeah 24:22 24 minutes, 22 seconds and so it's gotten hard yeah but I I like the heart of that are you seeing a lot 24:30 24 minutes, 30 seconds of Agents get out of the industry then no no okay there's crazy talks of it sure I mean everyone is saying 35 are 24:39 24 minutes, 39 seconds going to leave yeah we haven't seen it yet so you just haven't seen it on your team or you haven't seen it at all like 24:47 24 minutes, 47 seconds I would say a combo I mean we've definitely had some leave sure it's people who I would have predicted to leave sure a year ago okay what what's 24:55 24 minutes, 55 seconds your take I mean we're starting to see some agents you know um we are seeing some 25:03 25 minutes, 3 seconds I would say take on other jobs they're not necessarily not renewing their license but it's saying hey uh I got to feed my family so I'm gonna go work at 25:11 25 minutes, 11 seconds you know so that's step one out the door kind of that's step one out the door right so so you know are they necessarily you know letting their license laps I guess no technically no 25:20 25 minutes, 20 seconds but but I am seeing I mean just because you can't survive Forever Without a paycheck right and some of these guys just so they are I am seeing a little 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds bit of that I guess you know um whether that continues and stuff like that I guess you know I mean we had quite a few agents for a little while 25:37 25 minutes, 37 seconds there you know so so I think things coming down is same thing with lenders I'm seeing you know lenders get out of business crazy you know so I mean which 25:46 25 minutes, 46 seconds my you know kind of you said sick minded you know that's kind of my thought too where it's like hey the benefit is there's less competition right so again the Strong Survive those that are 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds actually hey this is a career-minded individual that's like no I'm in your long haul right you know I've been doing loans for you know 16 years now right you know so it's like I'm not going 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds anywhere you know what I mean we just we use these down times to kind of refine processes and say okay what can we do better what can we do you know change 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds you know you know as far as employees go should we get rid of this guy you know anyhow it's I don't think the downside the downturns are always bad 26:18 26 minutes, 18 seconds um from that's opportunity I think it's opportunity I I think 08 is different because oh it was yeah it smacked a lot of people a lot of people who were really 26:26 26 minutes, 26 seconds smart with money yes this is like yeah they're gonna survive well I think you're right yeah no you're yeah 26:33 26 minutes, 33 seconds you're right on uh as far as you know people that um any advice you have for per sellers that are selling the home 26:41 26 minutes, 41 seconds you know you said hey right now they're doing a lot of things to negotiate but so is it a bad time to sell or or you know what advice are you giving sellers 26:50 26 minutes, 50 seconds yeah honest advice and I think if you can it's twofold if you can wait a couple months to where you 26:59 26 minutes, 59 seconds don't you truly don't need to sell your house for the next five years I would wait because there is the other side that 27:06 27 minutes, 6 seconds things could continue to go bad sure so if you don't have to move you're not relocating I would hold out come to the 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds spring okay but the other side of that scenario and this was a conversation I just had was 27:21 27 minutes, 21 seconds inventories going down right now there's not a ton of Rhyme or Reason Why 27:27 27 minutes, 27 seconds okay I think it's a really good Glimpse to sell I'm hoping it becomes more of a seller's market or more balanced 27:36 27 minutes, 36 seconds but the advice I'm giving to sellers is if your home is a vacant you probably can't sell it if it's dirty you probably can't sell it you're home 27:44 27 minutes, 44 seconds now to to get a buyer in the door has to be the best looking one gotcha where it was hey this is my only 27:51 27 minutes, 51 seconds off yeah gas along yeah yeah because there's nothing else out there right yeah and it's I mean I 27:59 27 minutes, 59 seconds we have we've asked that we Ed first and getting buyers through 28:09 28 minutes, 9 seconds but it's still a struggle sure it's the nicest house on the Block it's the nicest presented so my my advice is 28:18 28 minutes, 18 seconds if you're not capable of doing those things sure maybe a little off-road sure okay okay 28:27 28 minutes, 27 seconds nope that's good advice um what about for people that are wanting to build a home is it is it you know um what are you advising them you know 28:36 28 minutes, 36 seconds with maybe a year Horizon there kind of thing you know building's never been my thing I I work 28:43 28 minutes, 43 seconds in a super historical old area where the homes turn really quick okay I I think if you're building right now 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds if you're starting building yeah just know what you're walking into you could walk into a hundred thousand of 29:00 29 minutes equity by the time you're done because the market could recover sure or it's you kind of saw what happened to a lot of people they went in not prepared 29:08 29 minutes, 8 seconds probably didn't talk to their lender the interest rates hey what happens if they double yeah now listen I don't qualify yeah totally 29:16 29 minutes, 16 seconds kind of thing so 12 months is a really long time and I think we've seen about four Market Cycles in the past 12 months I don't think we'll see that again sure 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds but the other side is there's a ton of Builders who are trying to get things off the books to where I think there's 29:31 29 minutes, 31 seconds immense opportunity sure yeah okay so if you're buying a if you're buying a nationwide Builder I'm probably going after that okay 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds we all know what they're doing yeah they're trying to get everything off the books local Builder it's just know what you're walking into they're gonna be a little more 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds okay all right good advice okay well so um kind of as we conclude here I guess what um you know as far as people 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds finding you and stuff like that you know you know if they want to work with you you know individually especially you know on the investing side you know kind of pick your brand on that kind of stuff 30:01 30 minutes, 1 second how do people get a hold of you you know best is Instagram okay I think most of us are saying about 30:11 30 minutes, 11 seconds your email conversation okay so picky up there okay awesome okay well uh anything else we didn't hit or anything else you wanted to talk about before no thanks 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds for having me I uh I think it's a really exciting time in real estate opportunity for buyers yeah 30:28 30 minutes, 28 seconds well no thank you Michael appreciate you coming on and appreciate talking to you and and uh again I think I think you're right I think it is a good opportunity a 30:37 30 minutes, 37 seconds good time you know things are things are changing and whenever there's change it's scary but ultimately I think it's good you know or at least it can be if 30:44 30 minutes, 44 seconds so but um yeah and I I guess that is something I'll I'll say we had Josh Romney in 30:52 30 minutes, 52 seconds and I'm I'm not going to quote him word for word but it it basically was you want to be buying when everyone is 30:59 30 minutes, 59 seconds sidelined agreed and I think most people whether you have money or don't have money are sidelined yeah 31:06 31 minutes, 6 seconds right now yeah and it's just can you actually do think you can time it right now yes nope I think you're right good good advice okay 31:14 31 minutes, 14 seconds um well thank you thanks for coming on uh thanks everybody else for listening and uh we'll we'll see you next time uh thanks for you know you can like us 31:22 31 minutes, 22 seconds subscribe us write a testimonial thank you we appreciate all those kind of things please so yes please do that so help people find us so uh we'll see you 31:31 31 minutes, 31 seconds next time thanks 31:36 31 minutes, 36 seconds [Music]
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