Grants, Co-Signing & Credit Tips for First-Time Homebuyers

Homebuying Journey Intro 0:00 Buying a home is more than just a transaction. It's a journey. And for many, it can feel overwhelming, 0:06 confusing, and even a little scary. But hey, you're not alone. Welcome to From Rents to Roots: Home Ownership with Work 0:13 Hard Mortgage, where we share real stories from real people who have navigated the home buying process. In 0:19 each episode, we sit down with first-time home buyers, industry experts, and real estate professionals 0:24 to talk about the challenges, surprises, and lessons they've learned along the way. If you're dreaming of owning a 0:31 home, but don't know where to start, you're in the right place. Let's dive in. Roundtable Setup 0:42 Welcome everybody to From Rents to Roots. We're doing the first of its kind, a roundt discussion here at 0:48 Warcard Mortgage where we've got some panel experts here and we're going to discuss a topic that I think is very 0:55 interesting. I think will be kind of fun to discuss. So, we got Matthew Young here, Brett Bushman, and Jordan Caprio. I'm Ryan Harding. I read this Wall Family Help Debate 1:02 Street Journal article. It's called These Parents Are Buying Homes for Their Kids with Strings Attached. And so, it 1:08 talks about home ownership, which has traditionally been this kind of milestone of independence, right? But 1:14 with housing affordability where it is today, it's increasingly become kind of a family affair, right? So instead of 1:21 just Joe and Susan buying a house, it's now families are involved. Okay? And so in the article, there was a couple 1:27 statistics. So it said 26% of Americans ages 18 to 44, surveyed by Redfin, said 1:34 they used family money towards their down payment. 22% of first-time home buyers used a gift or loan from family 1:41 or friends towards their down payment in 2025 and 8% used inheritance, which the 1:47 article says was actually at an all-time high as far as inheritance goes and using that. So, here's the question. Are 1:53 we entering an era where having family help is becoming almost necessary for 1:59 first-time home buyers? There's the question. I feel like you guys could answer that better because I'm just on the other end 2:05 of it. And like I don't really know a whole lot of my friends that have helped. Okay. How old are you? 2:11 24. And how old are you? Okay. I'm 55. Have you helped anybody buy a house or 2:17 co-signed? I have three out of my four kids are married and homeowners and they all did Grants Over Gifts 2:23 bought the homes on their own. Okay. Actually using some I just had saved up and really smart with money. My youngest 2:31 my sec my youngest that's married. They used a grant program that's going on in Utah right now. 2:36 Okay. But they also had been smart with their money and weren't saddled with a lot of debt and had good credit scores, but 2:43 they didn't have they literally had brought almost nothing to closing because of the grant program. Okay. 2:48 But they could afford the pay they could afford the monthly payment. So they used the grant program then. They used a grant program that's going 2:54 on in Utah that maybe you've heard about that if you're a first-time home buyer, you're buying something brand new. 2:59 Yeah. the purchase price has to be $450,000 or less, then there's a $20,000 3:05 grant, okay, that could be used for down payment costs, whatever. They also they 3:10 use that in combination with a program called Utah Housing because a lot of times that 20,000 isn't enough to cover 3:16 down payment and all the closing costs. Sure. So, they used also a a second that 3:23 covered the rest of it through Utah housing. Okay. So, pretty and I do I feel like I Media Versus Reality 3:28 do a pretty good amount of first-time home buyer loans and education and I don't want to say it's not harder than 3:35 it was 20 30 40 years ago. When I built my first home, I had help. Okay. From So, 3:41 yeah, I I think the media likes negativity. It sells. Negativity and sex is what sells. 3:48 And I think an article that makes it sound like, oh, kids are never going to be able to get in a house now without the parents buying it for them is a is 3:55 an article that people want to publish more than, hey, if you're smart with your money, there are ways to get into a 4:00 home. And that's how I personally feel. So I I'm not discounting it's hard. So your opinion, yeah, I think it can 4:06 happen that hey, actually, no, I think a lot of people still can do it without families. I'm doing loans on a monthly basis for 4:12 first-time home buyers. Yeah, I think the article was also stating that parents that teach their kids and 4:19 help them focus, that is the end goal to get to financial freedom. That is 4:24 becoming what the article was wanting to point out is this whole housing market 4:29 needs to be like a family topic, not just like a, oh yeah, I kind of know 4:35 about it. It was talking about it needs to be planned for and is it planned for because it's the right decision or is it 4:42 planned for because it's a financially smart decision for future families to cuz one of the examples that it gave was 4:49 like there was a family that just like their mom was passing away and they 4:56 wanted she wanted her whole family to be together like close and nearby and so 5:02 the dad actually helped buy nearby homes homes, but then he talked about how it 5:08 is just like a smarter financial decision to buy homes, to not buy homes. 5:13 And so the article talked about how it's harder now or it feels harder because of 5:19 the media, but really if you wanted to get into a home, it's just it's something that you start before they 5:26 have money than just when they get jobs or graduate out of college that talking to. Maybe you're saying then I guess if 5:32 I summarate like it's not just okay so maybe financially they're not getting as much help and stuff like that but you're 5:38 saying intellectually or at least kind of family coaching family knowledge and stuff like that is happening more 5:44 more needs to need because the examples that they gave were like a little in my mind I'm younger so I'm like in my mind 5:51 getting $155,000 gift from your parents is like that's 5:56 not everybody's situation very but that was one of the examples that they gave and I was like Okay. Or they 6:02 had a college student and she just lived in a house that they paid for and then after she graduated they were going to 6:09 have her on okay the loan. And so they were talking about they were talking about having those strategies. And I was reading and I was 6:16 like that's not everybody's situation. Not everybody has parents that like a 6:23 point that I made was your parents had an easier time getting into a home. So 6:28 therefore, should they be the ones feeling entitled to help out their kids 6:34 since it is harder times even though what Brett said was kind of spot on? It's not that hard to get into a home if 6:40 you focus on it, but there needs to be more of a focus. Okay, it can be done. The article had quoted I Parents in the Process 6:46 can't remember some big realy firm that one of their goals was to encourage all first-time home buyers to have their 6:51 parents involved. Even if they're not involved in a loan or gifting or anything, just have them involved in the 6:56 purchase process because and if some one of the buyers was quoted as saying, 7:02 "Yeah, because my parents, hate to admit it, but they're smarter than me. They've been around the block. They knew questions to ask I would have never 7:08 thought of." Sure. About HOA or this or whatever it may have been. And so I teach first-time 7:13 home buyer classes. And then every year or two I go in my sister who teaches in high school, I go in and teach a little 7:19 class and it's the only time they're taught about anything to do with credit. And usually is what I start with is I 7:26 tell these kids, "Hey, where do you see yourself in a few years?" And of course, they're all saying, "I'm going to be driving this. I'm going to live here. 7:32 I'm going to live I'm going to live on the coast of California or whatever it may be." And then I say, "Okay, let's 7:37 back into that." Yeah. How much does that car cost? And I go, "Okay, what do you make right now?" Most of them work. I'm making whatever 7:43 minimum wage and and these lofty goals in the next two or three years are going to have to be making $500,000 a year to 7:49 qualify to live the lifestyle they think they're going to live. Nobody's taught them that. Yeah. And so I think that's why we have so 7:55 many deflated kids that actually get in the world and actually start paying their own rent and maybe have to buy their own car and they're just going 8:01 this can never happen like and they maybe make poor decisions like saddling themselves with an expensive 8:07 car which then makes it that much harder to ever purchase real estate or they have no credit. That's 8:12 good meaning parents are saying don't ever buy on credit. So you get kids I still happen to come in that your age 8:20 that don't even have a credit score. Y they just never I've always bought cash thinking that was a great thing and it 8:25 actually hurt them. Sure. So Matthew, jump in here. Yeah. I was just thinking the article made me think from a parents perspective Inheritance with Strings 8:31 where I've got half of my kids are moved out and at the point that where they could start buying a home and half are 8:37 still at home. But it makes me think, do I want to keep keep my money as an 8:42 inheritance that they enjoy after I die, or would it be fun if I could give them 8:48 some money now, but I don't want to give it to them for things that in my from my point of view would be frivolous or 8:54 wasteful. But I think this would be potentially something that that would be good where I could give them some of 9:00 their inheritance now, enjoy seeing them benefit from it. But I think at some 9:05 point I still want them to be independent, financially independent on their own. So perhaps having some type 9:12 of like the the title of the the article says strings attached. They'll have some kind of strings attached where hey, 9:19 maybe you need to pay me back or come up with something to where it's not just a a gift. So you bring up a larger 9:25 question then too because so let's talk about that for a second. So obviously first of all not every parent has means 9:31 to be able to actually hey here's 15 grand for a down payment on a house right not everybody has that ability but 9:37 let's say for example that some do and so they're thinking about it. So then, yeah, that is the question. Do I the the 9:44 thought always is, hey, when I die, here's the money and stuff like that. But by that time, they're probably in their 60s, the kids, you know what I 9:50 mean? And because and so it's not as important for them and stuff like that. Whereas, if you're Jordan's age, hey, 9:55 $15,000 for a house might be a huge thing, right? But then the flip side is, hey, I want Jordan or my kid to work, 10:01 too. I want them to appreciate money because if I just give it to them, they don't appreciate it, right? It's a lot 10:07 easier to spend dad's money than it is your own money, right? If if Yeah, I can testify to that. Way easier. 10:12 Yes. And so as a parent, that's one of the things that you want to make sure you don't want entitled kids, right? And 10:18 kids that just, oh yeah, it's all my money, right? So you want kids that actually know how to work hard, but 10:23 there's also kids that sometimes do need help to get to that next stage. So I don't know, it's a larger question. Do 10:28 you give to kids if you have the money? And what are the strings? What are the things? I don't know. Just kind of thoughts there. And also from my point 10:35 of view, I don't think that like if you're anybody of character, you wouldn't want your parents to help out a 10:42 whole lot if they I don't know. My parents, they can testify to this. If 10:47 they offer, it's like most of the time my family says no because we understand 10:53 that concept. And I feel like when you get to parents and you have kids my age and I'm the last one and they have other 11:01 kids that already own homes and they're already starting their families, it's like they kind of want to help me out 11:07 more. Okay. Which is harder because you want to build it and you want to be independent and you know that all these things are 11:13 good. I think what the article was highlighting is just informing parents 11:19 like hey it's also a harder time just understand that. So instead of doing X, 11:26 Y, and Z to be like, "All right, make sure you earn it because we want you to appreciate money and everything like that, just financially planning for it 11:33 and then understanding that this is a way to help out kids that is going to be 11:38 smart. They're going to learn how to handle money. They're going to learn all those lessons. This is just a way for 11:45 you to set them up financially." Sure. And it's like, but yeah, if they 11:50 were my kids, I would just be like, "Hey, just please don't be entitled, please." Sure, you could want it, but but again, 11:56 you're trying to create How do you do that, right? Yeah. I don't know how to parent. I think that's obvious. I think I think 12:02 that's what I was talking about cuz at least the people that I hang out with, they're all trying to do it 12:08 independently. Like, they want to be independent. Sure. And I think that's that's a good thing. Good. 12:13 Yeah. It's a good thing, obviously. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't think it's that big of a deal. I think if it's a 12:18 focus, you can accomplish it. Brett, you got kids. Don't Yeah. One one thing I was going to mention, there's more ways to help than Co-Signing and Options 12:24 just give giving money and early inherit if you're going to give them money anyway and you have the means. Is it 12:30 that different saying, "I'm going to give you some now. You may not get anything when I die." Yeah. I think that's a great strategy if 12:36 you're if you have that. Sure. Sure. But co-signing is another pretty common if a parent can cosign if they just 12:42 can't quite get there for some qualification reason, but can make the payment. Yeah, 12:47 co-signing. And I've been able to educate a lot of parents that are worried about it. And one thing that 12:53 most parents don't know because they're worried, geez, what if I want to buy a bigger home or an investment property? Now, I'm not going to be able to. If 12:59 they're co-signing with their child, they live in that home and that child pays the payment for a year and that can be proven with bank statements or 13:05 whatever showing. It's coming out of my kids account to make that payment. Then after a year, after 12 payments, we 13:10 don't have to count that payment against the co-signer anymore. So now that frees them back up. Yeah. to do what they wanted to do maybe 13:16 with real estate and mortgage lending. So I think it's things like that that I don't think everybody just they just 13:21 don't know and they just feel like oh there's not a way to do this. There might be Yeah. because they don't want to tie up their credit but to your point 13:27 Yeah. Yeah. the parents Exactly. Maybe they don't want to tie up their credit or all those kind of things. So like I 13:32 said there's just there's down payment assistance program there's grant programs and then there's just educating 13:38 people to make the right decisions. Sure. And some of those decisions if we can if they can just learn earlier and 13:44 younger and I'm not saying there I'm not saying you don't ever want to work a commission job. I work commission only. 13:50 Yeah. But they need to understand if they're at a fork in the road where they've got this job or this job offer and this job 13:55 offer is salary or guaranteed 40 hours full-time. They could qualify almost immediately. 14:01 Yep. At that income level if they're starting their own business or starting I may need a year up to two years of history 14:08 to qualify them. those type of things. They ought to know. Yep. They ought to know what affects credit. Building Credit Early 14:15 All my kids, and I've been in lending and banking forever, so I knew that it 14:20 would help them. All my kids, sometime around the time they were 16, I had them 14:26 sign on a loan with me. And every bank, a couple of the banks I actually worked for, oh, we can't have a 16-year-old on 14:32 a loan because the legal age to contract is 18. I would just push back and go, you can have them on there. you won't be 14:38 able to ever collect, but you're doing the loan to me. It doesn't hurt having my kid on there, too. With a little push back, I was able to add my kid. And a 14:44 couple of them, it's because we were buying a little family car that because they were turning 16 and needed something to drive. One of them, we were 14:50 actually buying a car for us. I already had that, but I just had my daughter cosign. That was huge for them because all of a sudden, they didn't even know. He just signed some papers and I was 14:57 making the payments. And that was huge for them. All of a sudden, they're 20, 21, and they're going to buy their first 15:03 car or whatever, maybe even younger. They got 780 credit scores because I got them on a little debit card when they 15:09 had they had a loan since they were 16. They got paid back. Like things like that if just more people knew. 15:14 Yeah. It set people up. So not necessarily giving them some money but giving them knowledge at an 15:20 earlier age. And in this case actually you're saying, hey, set them up on a on getting credit earlier, right? 15:25 Getting credit earlier, I think is and then not saddling yourself with I think everybody knows that, but 15:31 maybe it having that drilled in a little more from home. I know it would be cool to drive a $80,000 truck. 15:37 Yep. But wouldn't it be cooler to have a home and drive? Yeah. The order matters, right? You're saying like, "Hey, let's start with 15:44 Yeah. The It's easy to get a car." That's a good point. The person that taught me that trick wasn't my parents 15:51 and my family's own businesses and they my dad had all the knowledge in the world to do it, but it was actually 15:58 before I left on my LDS mission. It was the banker that I was getting my first 16:03 debit card and I was 16 and he was like, "You're living on a mission?" He's like, "Okay, buy a pair of socks if you get 16:10 approved." He's like, "Your parents, you think they'll cosign?" I was like, "I don't even know what that means. Maybe 16:15 not." And he's like, "Okay, let's see if you can get approved on your own for a little credit card." And he's like, "Buy 16:20 some mission stuff for it and then pay it off. pay it off and then just shove that in your dresser at home while 16:27 you're gone and just have it build your credit. Long story short, I didn't get approved for the credit card because I 16:32 didn't have anything. But it was a cool opportunity that I could have had. But what right when I got home, my brother 16:39 actually sat me down and taught me everything. Yeah. Good. It was like might not be apparent, but 16:44 it is something to understand that it is important. If these are your goals, then 16:50 these things are also as important. And so I like that we're doing this podcast. I think it spreads awareness. 16:57 Yeah. Well, that's the purpose of it. And I would say one of the thing that I've done with my kids is at 18 they get a 17:03 credit card and I teach them how to use it. And again, the fact that you put it on autopay, the whole point is you never 17:09 spend more than you have, right? So you you try to never pay the minimum payment. You're always pay if you're spending a thousand, you better be 17:14 paying off a,000, right? Kind of thing. But if they go on a mission or they go to college, the reality is they're not going to buy a home at 19, 20, 21. it 17:21 might be a little bit of time and so the nice thing about getting a credit card right at 18 or 16 if you can but there 17:26 is some it is harder to do that. So at least if you start at 18 that's two three years of history and what a lot of 17:33 people don't know is they assume you have to carry a balance to have it count right to to get credit for it. The 17:38 reality is you can get a credit card and have a zero balance for three years, but 17:44 every month it still shows an on-time payment of zero, but it's an on-time payment. And that goes with the credit 17:49 bureaus, and that then builds credit. So, that's one of the best ways to build credit. You don't actually even have to pay interest ever. Ever. Okay. 17:57 And even your credit limit matters because they only want you to spend three and a half% of the actual full 18:03 credit limit that you have. And so, a lot of people that have You're saying 30%. Yeah. A third of it. Yeah. 18:09 Yeah. A third of it. Megan actually did this. She had her dad cosign and he was a co-signer and she called the bank and 18:16 was like, I feel like this is her credit score kept going down. Yeah. And she was one of the ones that was 18:22 aware of what it all entails. And so she was like, "Why does it keep going down?" And all that she did was just call the 18:28 bank and get a bigger credit limit. And her dad was the co-bar. And then she's like, I'm not going to spend any of it, 18:35 but this is like how much I usually use. It's 200 bucks, something really small, but since it was a $500 limit, it was 18:43 actually hurting her credit. Y and so she just called in and said, "I just want a bigger limit so then I can 18:50 spend my little bit of amount and pay it off." Sure. Because if you're maxing out the credit card at 500. Yeah. 18:55 Even though it's only 500, it's still showing maxed out. Yeah. No, you're exactly right. Yeah. And so I thought 19:00 that was a little I don't know if it's a cheat code. It just that's just knowledge that they don't tell you because the truth is that they get paid 19:07 more money if you're, you know, if you're not paying off your credit card. Sure. And again, I think it is just a lack of knowledge. I think a lot I'm not 19:14 sure there's necessarily devious people trying to screw, you know, screw people necessarily, but I think it's just lack 19:19 of my bad. Always thinking people are mean. Yes. Anyhow, Myths About Down Payments 19:24 yeah. my son when who got married about a year and a half ago and bought a house right after bought a town home with his wife. He here I'm in this industry. I've 19:32 helped him build his credit. I've he's been to one of my first-time home buyer classes with his at the time future 19:37 wife. And when I asked when they got married or when they were engaged and I was asking where you going to live, what's your plan? I think we'll probably 19:43 rent for a couple years and save up. And I said why? And I had to sit I actually 19:49 I'm not even a realtor. I found a property. It's not the one they bought, but I just found a property, a town home in the area actually where they ended up 19:55 buying. And I ran the numbers and I said, "You could have this with this program with nothing down and this is 20:01 your monthly payment." And yes, it's more than rent, but you could own it. That's finally when the light went on. And he goes, "Really?" And now, of 20:07 course, they're so glad they they they were able to use that program. They bought it. It's brand new. Had an 20:12 unfinished basement. Now they finished it and they they decorated how they wanted like their home. And they just they're so glad they did it. And if I 20:20 hadn't maybe pushed them a little and showed them, are you sure you don't want to buy a home? You qualify fine. They 20:25 wouldn't have they'd probably still be renting. They wouldn't have built the wealth. They've I so even then I just I 20:31 don't know if it's I don't know where he got that inkling. Both of them kind of felt that way. Yep. So I don't know if it's just out there 20:36 and no I feel like social media social media whatever they just felt like oh we're not even thinking about buying it. Probably articles like this 20:42 even if they didn't read it they just see that headline and go oh yeah my my dad's not going to buy me a house 20:47 so we probably can't get one. And I just think there's a lot of I'm surprised how often I do these classes or meet with young couples and they've been they're 20:54 either just have that idea that there's probably a long ways away and then when we actually talk a lot of times it's way 21:00 more feasible sooner than they think. Y and I'm also surprised how many have just been given bad information in my 21:06 opinion. Yeah. And their uncle told them you got to save 20%. You got to save up 20% to buy a home. Not true. 21:13 Yeah. for anybody. That's I'm not against down payments. Have a down payment if you can, but 21:18 yeah, don't wait. You know how how long it would take most people to save up 20% of 21:24 a $500,000 home? Frankly, that $500,000 home cost $700,000 by the time you save 21:30 your tail. There's a cost of waiting. Exactly. Have a similar situation with my oldest. Helping Kids Buy Sooner 21:35 She's out of the home and she's renting for a couple years now. And I would much rather see her in a home than renting. 21:42 and I think she would be too, but the cost is higher and she's not a high wage earner yet, just starting out in the 21:49 workforce. So again, I'd love to see her get into a home. And if I can help her to get there, even to where if she can't 21:56 afford the payment on her own and doesn't therefore doesn't qualify for the loan, if I can help her get it, but 22:02 she can find roommates and have those roommates paying her rent, she can potentially then still more easily 22:07 afford it than what she's paying rent on right now, plus be gaining that home and the equity in a home. Side topic, too, 22:14 is funny. My wife and I were talking the other day about now that the two oldest are out of the home, they they always 22:20 hear, "What? You bought the youngest?" those shoes. You never would have bought us those shoes. And we go, when we had 22:25 all four of you at home, we had $40 each. Now that two of you are off doing your own thing. The the younger ones Fair Help Between Kids 22:32 have $80. But thinking about it, I'm like, this is, you know, turn the tables a little bit. Now the oldest one is in a 22:38 position where she could buy a home and the younger ones couldn't. Eventually, yeah, we could give her a little bit more money to help her out with getting 22:44 into a home and then we wouldn't have to be in that situation of mom and dad have favorite kids. Co-Signing and Boarder Income 22:51 Yeah. You never want the Yeah, there's no That's another great example of a an appropriate time, if that's the right 22:56 word, for a parent to cosign because you don't want to set your kid up to fail and have to make their payment or get foreclosed on. And we in in our realm as 23:05 far as qualifying, we can't use that. They call it border income like room and board. So, if she's renting just rooms 23:11 down the hall, so to speak, I can't count that to qualify her. But that doesn't mean she has isn't going to actually get that money. 23:16 Yeah. And so, that's a great point where she doesn't qualify in paper. you co-sign and help her qualify. She becomes a 23:22 little landlord and can make her payment and someday she can make her payment on her own without having to rent those rooms 23:28 out maybe. And the nice I just learned this recently actually. So if we fast forward that scenario, you help your daughter 23:34 and do that a year later you can actually count that border income to qualify if we can show a year history of 23:40 receiving that and stuff. Maybe not a bad way to go kind of thing. So now you can refinance. So it's only a temporary 23:46 thing. Your daughter to buy a house is what Ryan's saying. and he's like, "Sounds like she's good to go." So, I know a loan officer that can help 23:52 you or help her. So, if I think what's helpful is again, especially as a parent, your goal is to see your kid Parents Teaching Money Skills 23:59 succeed. And I think sometimes parents again wonder, hey, is it a good thing to help my kid? Shouldn't they fail? 24:06 Shouldn't they suffer? Shouldn't they have to go through some of the same things I did? And I think I understand the logic and I think obviously to fail 24:13 is good and there's those different things but also if the parent has wisdom especially some of these things like 24:19 we're talking about hey on credit and stuff like that where else would the kid have learned to get a credit card if not through their parents right and so I 24:26 think having that wisdom and helping that kid like what I don't necessarily want I again if I go back to what I want 24:33 kids that are not entitled that are hardworking good members of society is failure one of the ways that can learn 24:39 that Sure, but another way is me and I can teach them, right? And so I'm not sure that they always need to go through 24:44 failure or need to wait 10 years to buy a house. I think if they can get in fact, I think there's a lot of things a 24:50 kid can learn, especially if we use your scenario, Matthew, like your daughter has to collect rent and has to talk to 24:55 their friends and say, "Hey, you haven't paid yet." That's a little uncomfortable. Turns out to do the dishes who just some of those skills actually would be 25:02 developed if she had had a home. So, in some ways, I think you're actually still again teaching her things. And again, if 25:09 the goal is eventually to have her self-sufficient, which we know home ownership is a very any of you guys have 25:15 seen, the the the net worth of somebody that rents versus the net worth of somebody that owns a home, hugely 25:20 different, right? So, buy a home as soon as you can is my general rule because 25:26 again, that's going to help you in the long term, right? It's get rich slowly, but you got to start that process, 25:31 right? Yeah, you got to start. I was thinking about one of my friends. She's owned a home for the last two years. And so she Early Homeownership Example 25:38 got a home when she was 22 and she's single or married. She's single. Single. She had a a home 25:45 before she graduated college and then she just rented it out and she had an adjustable rate mortgage and she's 25:52 looking to refinance like here soon. But she just had that was obviously 25:57 something when I talked to her about refinancing and the plans and the next steps she was talking to me that was 26:04 just a focus that her and her parents had all the time was just to get into 26:10 real estate, get into buying properties. Here are the jobs that are going to get 26:15 you there this the fastest. This is a job that you can get right now that matches your degree. And for them, it 26:22 was a huge focus that she would get into a home. And now that she's graduated, she's making more money. She's planning 26:29 on just fully renting out that house and getting her own home here soon. And she's my age. She's 24. 26:35 You're so much further ahead because Yeah. And I feel like I'm behind because 26:40 it's just like it just wasn't ever talked about. And so I think some families they stress about talking money 26:47 with their kids, but it's with her now. I would say that they're very comfortable and money I would assume 26:54 wasn't ever a hard topic. It was more of just they had a healthier relationship with it. Sure. And I think that it doesn't really 27:01 matter what financial state you're in. Talking about how to have money work for 27:07 you is something that needs to be at least just from my experience of just growing up. It's not really a topic of 27:14 how to until it's too late. But then every once in a while you have that weirdo I like church ball that's my 27:19 stocks are doing really good and you're like you're 14 going. Yeah. You're like you're 14 years old man I don't know what that means. 27:25 They're like ah just you wait and now you kind of get off like you kind of get off the mission and start going to 27:30 school and then you're like so what's all that about stocks you were talking about? And I think it is just something 27:36 a lack of curiosity on my age. Sure. And then just a lack of just 27:43 parenting of just little nuggets if you don't want to sit down and say, "Hey, but I wish that my parents would just 27:48 sit down and like when I first started making money, just be like, "Okay, love you to death. This is not how you use 27:55 your money. We're going to manage your money for a little bit and we're going to teach you how to manage it." And I 28:01 feel like it would be a lot easier. Sure. Sure. To just do that. Love that. I I think what we're learning Affording Without Wealthy Parents 28:07 is so Yes. The article talked about $100,000 and everything. Again, very few people have that much money to give. 28:13 Most of the time, first-time home buyer, hey, three and a half% down, that's 10 to 20 grand, right? And that that's more in the wheelhouse of some some parents. 28:20 Again, not everyone. In fact, probably a large majority of those listening, maybe not. But I think what we've discussed 28:25 here is that it's actually less because because you brought up grants and down payments, and again, Utah's actually very good about trying to help people 28:32 get into homes with very little down. And so I think it's important for people to know that if you don't have wealthy 28:37 parents, you can still buy a home. But again, there's a lot of it is probably an educational gap. I would say I think 28:44 that's probably the biggest lack is education because people just don't understand that, hey, it's actually doable. And again, it is a goal, too. I 28:52 think that's what I think a lot of people maybe need to think about it kind of thing. Not just someday I'll buy a home. I'm going to actively figure out 28:58 see what I need to be doing. So, in 6 months or two years, whatever that time frame is, get to a point where I can buy 29:04 a home. Yeah. Going back to what you were saying about the California coast, nice car person. Okay. Hey, it's okay to have 29:09 dreams. It's okay to have goals, but how are you going to get there? Okay. It doesn't just happen. It doesn't just happen. 29:14 You're going to be an influencer. It Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Video game player kind of thing, right? I wanted to comment on the I think Help Without Entitlement 29:20 helping what however that looks for that situation. A kid, one of your children or whatever get 29:26 into a home doesn't necessarily entitle them. In fact, in some ways it it could 29:31 be the opposite because if you're helping them enough to qualify, but it's still stretching them a little. 29:36 Yeah. That's part of the problem, too, is you have some kids are just like, uh, I could do that, but that payment's going 29:42 to be I'm throwing out 2,800. Yeah. And my rent right now is 2,200. I could 29:47 do it, but man, I sure like having that 600 bucks a month. I go out way more than I would. I buy more clothes. And so 29:54 I think if the help is closer, if the help is a little bit of a down payment, if the help is what, however that looks, 30:00 but it's still stretching a little. It's actually the opposite of entitling them. Yeah. Because they're still having to stretch 30:06 now they're going to gain wealth quicker. So I I never looked at it like, oh, I'm going to have entitled kids. I 30:12 think you bring up a good point because like Jordan talking about, my guess is Jordan's probably spent some money on things that he didn't need. Is that fair 30:18 to say? Oh, 100%. Just today. So yeah, and so if he had a home, I'm into car pooling now. 30:24 If he had a home, he would there. It's essentially a forced savings plan, right? You have to make that mortgage 30:29 payment. And so that means you have to live on less than what you were doing before. Brett, I think you make a good point there. 30:34 And also, it's like I'm not going to be a parent anytime soon where any of this 30:40 matters. We're like, sure, 15 years down the line or 16 years, but it's like that's also implying that I 30:46 have a kid next year. So that's also not happening. let's say 20 years to be safe. Now that my my future parent 30:54 wheels are turning, I'm like, do I really want to watch my kid struggle financially? And it's like to a degree, 31:01 yeah, but like to Brett's point, it's oh, owning a home doesn't mean that they're just set financially and that 31:07 they get to spend that $600 on whatever they want. It's oh, actually, it's going to force them to budget. It's going to 31:14 force them to prepare. It's going to force them to think about careers and to think about jobs that they're going to 31:20 pick. If I get a W and I just work the corporate ladder with the degree that I have or no degree and I start learning 31:26 skills, then okay, there will be a point though where I don't have to be 31:31 financially dependent on anybody and I can just be financially independent. But as a parent, I don't think there's any 31:38 like better thing that you can do. It's not like they're not having to make the 31:43 payments. It's not like the parents are just buying the house outright and all you have to do is like pay for gas because I feel like that's the 31:50 that would be more entitled. Yeah, that's more entitled. Have all your disposable income and now a free house to live in. That obviously 31:55 that's a different that would be bad because now they will spend the money that the point they're going to spend the money on the frivolous things that don't matter. 32:01 So I kind of wanted to just like point that out. I was like I don't think that I want my kids to have to go. I don't 32:07 want my kids to feel like they couldn't come to me for worthy financial help. 32:14 Sure. If that makes sense. Sure. And I feel like most parents, bail money, stuff like that. Yeah. I feel like most parents, When Gifts Become Control 32:20 we have really close agree with that. Some of our best friends, their oldest son married a gal from a fairly wealthy 32:26 family. Her grandparents particularly are very wealthy. And so they bought them by understanding. I don't know if they bought them just helped them 32:32 greatly into their first town home. And then just recently just gave them a home. They bought a couple of big homes on their street, the grandparents on 32:38 their street, and they don't have a huge family, so they just have a few kids and grandkids, and they just wanted them all 32:44 just close by within Yeah. two or three blocks. And we're talking, this is in Utah County, a $700,000, $800,000 home. So, we're not 32:52 talking, they gave a little shot, and they just gave it to them. Yeah. Now, they And the parents, we just, 32:57 we're friends. We talk a lot and they just It's one of those things. Of course, we would never tell them don't accept that. Yeah. 33:02 It's awesome. What a what an amazing opportunity to be gifted something like that. But at the same time, we look at 33:07 us and we look our marriage was forged in those kind of hard times, especially 33:12 when we were young. But do we even have the money looking for in the couch cushions for change to see if they could go to a dollar movie. 33:19 That was a part of what made us who we are today. And they're never going to have to worry about that. So, I can see 33:26 I think the article mentioned something similar or at least said the father that was going to help help one of his kids 33:32 buy a home, but the stipulation was she had to stay nearby his home. So, I think 33:37 of okay, at what point is it helping and at what point is it getting to where it's maybe a little bit controlling 33:43 because we want our kids to be independent for sure, like we've talked about, but at the same time, it's like, 33:49 okay, would we have that temptation to be like, but remember, you've got to make your your mortgage payment. Should 33:55 you be eating out that much? Should you be buying those clothes? See, that'd be the worst, right? You wouldn't want that. Yeah. That's 34:01 micromanaging every looking at every decision, right? So whether it's controlling their spending or even just controlling saying, "Hey, I don't want 34:07 you to move away. I want you to stay close to me." type of a thing. They even express that concern like and 34:12 this this other family is great. They love them good people. Y but they see if there's ever if there is 34:18 that conflict of we're both having Thanksgiving, we want the family there. 34:23 Yeah. How do you not go they give me a house? Sure. I better go to theirs. You know what I 34:28 mean? How do you not How does that not play in to some degree? Like Sure. Sure. We're kind of I think we 34:33 probably almost spent too much time on that maybe for this podcast because I I think that's the rarity. Yes. 34:38 That is less than 1%. I think it's going to be the people that educating the parents that maybe there's Stretch for Appreciating Assets 34:44 ways to help without having to come up with a ton of money. Yes. And educating that there are ways to do it maybe sooner than they think. And 34:50 that I tell I I've told all my kids they the three that have bought homes when they got to that point. I remember thinking it's literally in my opinion 34:57 the one thing to stretch for. Yeah. You probably shouldn't be stretching for vehicles or recreational 35:03 vehicles or that type of stuff. But if there's one thing to go, I think I'm budgeting. I think we can do it and 35:09 still have some. That's the one thing to stretch for a little bit is an appreciating asset. Yes. Agreed. Agreed. 35:16 And there's not a lot of appreciating assets out there. Pretty much that in your Bitcoin kidding 35:21 pretty much nothing else appreciates. COVID cards went up, but that was temporary, right? Yeah. Temporary. So, normally it's only 35:27 houses, but houses and land. Okay. Hey, this has been great. Is there any any other kind of concluding 35:33 thoughts any of you guys have on this subject before we kind of wrap up here? Anything? It kind of felt like a parenting 35:39 counseling for a little bit. Then also, okay, guys, let's just be smart. But sometimes you have to have somebody just 35:46 tell you, hey, this is just how the world works. And I'm not here to tell you what to do. 35:52 But I feel like most times than not, there's people that just want you to show them that this is how it is. So 35:59 being open with that, I think so I'll say this, part of the reason I wanted to do these discussions 36:04 is cuz I look at college. I remember so I got kids in college right now and they have a lot more help now than than I did 36:12 like mentoring like counseling. Hey, okay, you want to achieve this? Here's the here's the schedule and stuff like that. when I was in school it was kind 36:19 of like figure it out and and a lot of people would spend extra time in school because they oh I didn't know I should 36:25 have taken that class now now I have to wait till next semester anyhow again it's basic sure you learn on your own 36:31 but why waste time why not do the best most efficient path to the what you can 36:37 do anyhow so what I'm hoping with this podcast is that we can do is again try to give more knowledge out there because 36:44 I don't think people have to fail for failure for your sake. I think you can gain a lot of knowledge and success in 36:50 life and not be entitled and not be a bad citizen by just learning these things. I don't know. Again, that's the 36:55 purpose of this podcast, I think, is to educate and to help people realize, hey, it's not so hard. And and hopefully it 37:01 does become more of a family affair. Again, not necessarily financially, but knowledgewise. That would, I think, is 37:06 100% what what should happen. And if you come from a family that's not super smart with money, hey, that's what this 37:13 podcast is for, right? Because again, sometimes mom and dad just don't know. that's not their wheelhouse and so that's fine. That's why we have these 37:19 resources and hopefully we can give that to them. So anyhow, but one last question that I was thinking, Is This the New Normal? 37:24 do we think that this is a a temporary situation or more a permanent house prices are going to keep going up? Maybe 37:30 salaries and wages aren't going to keep pace. Yeah. Do we think that this will be more of a an ongoing thing where 37:36 we'll need family help or do you think it might ever change? I 37:42 I personally feel like I'm not saying it couldn't get a little bit rates going down alone would be a huge generally 37:49 you're not going to see house prices go down. They may dip in a recession or something, but rates would help. But and then incomes, those are like the three 37:55 variables, right? I think this is more the new norm to some degree. I think it's going to be harder for a single 38:01 family income to buy a home. It's it's going to be more the husband and wife are both working, at least at first. I nobody wants to hear that probably 38:07 because it's kind of sounds depressing, but that that's my thought. I would agree with that. And the only thing I would say is I don't think it 38:14 gets worse. I don't think home prices are going to get worse or anything like that, but I'm not sure it's going to get 38:19 a lot better either. I do think rates are going to come down. I think incomes are coming up. So, again, it's just home prices sped up really quickly and 38:26 incomes and rates are not keeping pace, right? Rates did what they did, but incomes aren't keeping pace. And so, I 38:32 do think incomes will continue to go up, but again, that takes time. It's already Yeah. So, no, I don't see that changing 38:37 too much. I would agree with Brett. I think it's partly the new norm, but yeah, I feel like it's going to be the 38:43 new norm. I feel like it already has been and I think people are realizing that now. I feel like everybody like this 38:50 isn't a new topic that like like I just I do want to kind of look back at the 38:56 numbers and look at everything and be like oh okay there's actually worse times and 39:01 people made it happen like there was a housing crash like and we came out of that and I feel like at the very 39:08 beginning Brett was talking about like the media wants everybody to think that the world is so hard and it's so tough 39:15 and everything's against you and I don't want this to be like a motivational thing. But like when it comes to buying 39:20 a house and if it is a goal that you have, then make a plan. And if the plan 39:25 includes your parents, I don't think there's a whole lot of parents out there that are not going to sit down and at 39:31 least hear it out. Sure. So that's just kind of the way and I don't think it's wrong either to 39:37 do that. I guess that's what I'm saying is I've warmed to the idea that hey, if you can help, go for it. You know what I mean? And again, maybe that's not 39:43 financially all the time. Maybe that's co-signing. Maybe that's just education, right? But I think I think helping kids 39:49 with this goal is actually a very good thing to do. I'd say maybe last decisions have 39:54 consequences. Even of course dramatic ones, you know, sure trying heroin or something. Sure. 40:00 I think when you can show me somebody that's whatever, let's say a young couple that's and their situation feels 40:06 bleak and they're like they're nowhere near. They haven't saved a penny. They're living check to check. There's no way I'm going to be able to ever buy 40:12 a home. I think you could probably ask some questions and rewind some time and 40:17 with different decisions. They could be they could have been in a home. The world wasn't necessarily all stacked 40:22 against them. Yeah. They whether it was spending patterns, whether it was 40:27 and this sounds kind of harsh, but are they the kind that are late to work all the time? Have they not got advancements one? Which sounds really harsh. I've 40:34 done they exactly are they have they stayed at a lower income because they just haven't worked that hard or whatever 40:40 that may be. Sure. And so that's again goes back to the younger the better to help people 40:47 understand. Yes. Those those have consequences those decisions how they're what they're doing 40:53 on their job, what kind of job they're aspiring to. Y is that a focus or is that just some sight thing they kind of have to do 40:58 because a boss can tell a soap box. Nope. Perfect. Thanks guys. Matthew, Brett, Jordan, appreciate you coming on Wrap Up and Next Episodes 41:05 talking and I think this has been educational and hopefully helpful for other people and we'll keep doing these. We'll have different topics. We'll be 41:11 doing this at least once a month, possibly more. We'll see how this kind of plays out, but but at least once a month, we'll be doing some kind of round 41:17 table discussion on a topic and we'll have different guests and stuff like that come on. But thank you all. Appreciate you. Thank you. 41:22 Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to From Rents to Roots. I hope today's episode gave you insight, confidence, and maybe even a 41:29 little inspiration on your home ownership journey. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, leave a 41:34 review, and share it with someone who might find it helpful. And if you're ready to take the next step in buying a home or just have questions, reach out 41:41 to me or my team at Workhard Mortgage. We'd love to help you on your path to home ownership. Until next time, keep 41:48 working hard, keep building your future, and we'll see you soon.