Rocking Real Estate! Interview with Dj Jones & Joel Pack
Musicians Dj Jones and Joel Pack share their transition into real estate, focusing on a service-first philosophy that prioritizes client education over sales tactics.
Dj Jones & Joel Pack
Realtors and Musicians
At a Glance
Archive Scoring
Introduction
The journey from the recording studio to the closing table is not as wide a gap as one might think. Joel Pack and Dj Jones, both lifelong musicians, have built a top-tier real estate team by leaning into the communication and networking skills forged in the arts. Their approach is defined by what they call a 'salesperson allergy'—a commitment to being advisors rather than pushy salesmen. This philosophy stems from personal 'bad experiences' with real estate in their past, driving them to create a sanctuary for clients who feel intimidated by the traditional industry grind.
Throughout their dialogue, there is a recurring theme of the 'forced savings account.' They view homeownership not as a speculative gamble like cryptocurrency, but as a long-term anchor for financial and emotional stability. They emphasize that while the market's headlines often scream about a falling sky, the reality for most homeowners is a return to a healthy, pre-pandemic normalcy. Their perspective is particularly valuable for those looking to understand real estate as a component of a well-lived life rather than just a transaction.
Community involvement acts as the heartbeat of their business model. By donating to the International Rescue Community (IRC) and local food banks, Dj and Joel demonstrate that the success of a real estate transaction can have a ripple effect far beyond the buyer and seller. They share moving stories of Ukrainian-born team members helping refugees find footing in Utah, showcasing the industry's potential for profound humanitarian impact.
For the first-time buyer, this episode serves as an emotional guide through 'Great Recession PTSD.' Dj and Joel address the fear that many millennials carry from 2008, helping them distinguish between a healthy market correction and a total collapse. They argue that the right time to buy is rarely dictated by the federal interest rate alone, but by the specific needs of an individual's life—whether that is a divorce, a relocation, or a growing family.
Ultimately, the conversation is an invitation to view real estate through a creative lens. Whether they are filming 80s-inspired music videos for marketing or talking a friend out of selling a high-equity property, Dj and Joel represent a new wave of realtors who value the 'vibe' of the relationship as much as the data on the contract. It is a refreshing look at how authenticity and professional expertise can coexist to help people find their way home.
Episode Overview
A detailed look at the topics, people, and context of this conversation.
In this episode, host Ryan Harding sits down with Dj Jones and Joel Pack of Pack Jones & Associates, a top-performing team at Berkshire Hathaway. With backgrounds in classical voice and rock music recording, Dj and Joel bring a unique, non-traditional energy to the real estate world. They discuss their decade of collective experience and how their creative roots allow them to speak a different language with clients who might otherwise be skeptical of the sales industry.
The discussion covers the practicalities of a shifting 2022 real estate market, moving away from the 'unicorn years' of 2020-2021 toward a more sustainable pace. They offer specific advice for first-time homebuyers, sellers navigating life changes like divorce, and those interested in the complexities of new construction. The team also highlights the work of their colleague Marianna, who operates in St. George, emphasizing their reach across Utah.
Beyond the numbers, the episode explores the team's commitment to philanthropy, specifically their support for refugee families through the International Rescue Community and their annual client appreciation events. The conversation is peppered with musical references, highlighting how they stay 'top of mind' with their sphere of influence by producing monthly music videos that bridge the gap between entertainment and industry expertise.
Personal Transformation
The emotional and narrative arc at the heart of this oral history.
Dj Jones and Joel Pack exemplify the transition from the creative arts to professional advisory roles. Joel moved from a career as a signed musician and recording studio owner into real estate after experiencing substandard service in both industries, while Dj leveraged his classical voice education and networking skills. Their transformation highlights a shift from viewing real estate as a transactional sales job to an service-oriented advisory profession, where they use their backgrounds to bridge the gap for clients who are typically 'allergic' to traditional salespeople.
Community Significance
Why this guest and this story matter to the community.
This story is significant because it provides a blueprint for how professional expertise and creative passion can merge to benefit a local community. By focusing on the 'music community' and those skeptical of corporate sales tactics, Jones and Pack demonstrate that effective homeownership guidance must be rooted in cultural competence and shared identity. Their approach fosters trust in the real estate process for demographics that might otherwise remain renters due to a lack of relatable guidance.
Furthermore, the team's commitment to the International Rescue Community (IRC) and local food banks illustrates the role realtors play as community anchors. Their work matching down payments for refugee families creates a direct pathway for marginalized groups to establish roots, proving that the success of a real estate team can be measured through social impact rather than just sales volume. This teaches future buyers that choosing an agent with a strong ethical and charitable compass can turn a private purchase into a community-building act.
"I thought hey maybe i can help help some of the under serviced clients i mean even especially in the music community sure who maybe some people who are allergic to salespeople or allergic to real estate industry sales people"
— Joel Pack · 1:55
Key Themes & Life Lessons
The ideas that run beneath the stories — and what they teach about community, leadership, and belonging.
Transition from Music to Real Estate
Relationship-Based Sales Philosophy
First-Time Homebuyer Advocacy
Market Normalization and Psychology
Real Estate as a Long-term Investment
Community and Charitable Impact
Wisdom & Life Lessons
A major lesson is the concept of 'commission breath'—the palpable desperation for a sale that often leads to bad advice. Buyers are taught to seek advisors who remain 'curious' about the client's goals rather than focused on a specific outcome. This ensures that the professional relationship is built on genuine advocacy rather than a desire for a paycheck.
Another key takeaway is the 'history rhymes' perspective on interest rates and market cycles. By comparing the 2022 market to 2018-2019, the guests provide a calming perspective on volatility. They teach that discomfort during a purchase is often a sign of a significant life investment that will pay off in equity and security years down the road, as long as the buyer does not exceed their financial limits.
Key Takeaways
- 1The 2020-2021 real estate market was an outlier; current trends mirror the stable growth seen between 2016-2019.
- 2Real estate agents with a 'salesperson allergy' focus on education and long-term advice over quick commissions.
- 3For first-time buyers, real estate acts as a 'forced savings account' that builds equity even during market leveling.
- 4Interest rates in the 4-6% range are historically average, despite being higher than the record lows of the pandemic era.
- 5Sellers must price homes realistically to attract multiple offers in a market where inventory stays active longer.
- 6Investing in the community through charities like the International Rescue Committee builds deeper client trust.
Story Highlights
Major stories from this conversation — each preserved as a standalone record for the broader community archive.
Joel Pack describes how he spent his entire college savings on a recording session that turned out to be a terrible experience. This frustration became the catalyst for him to start Rigby Road Studios in Salt Lake City, with the mission of providing the local rock music community with a high-quality, professional environment that he felt was missing in Utah at the time.
Emotional Significance
It represents a moment of deep disappointment and financial loss that fueled an entrepreneurial drive to protect others from the same fate.
Why This Matters
It establishes Joel's foundation as someone who prioritizes client experience over simple transactions.
Life Lesson
Negative experiences can be the foundation for positive innovation if you use them to identify and fill a gap in service.
Transformation
Joel transformed from a frustrated, young musician who lost his savings into a business owner and community pillar for local artists.
What It Reveals About Dj Jones & Joel Pack
Joel is motivated by a sense of justice and a desire to improve under-serviced industries.
What It Reveals About the Community
The broader Utah community rewards entrepreneurs who take a 'do it yourself' approach to improving local culture.
Community Value Preserved
The value of supporting local creative talent through infrastructure and professional mentorship.
For future generations: It demonstrates how the local music scene in Salt Lake City was built by individuals who took personal financial risks to support their peers.
Joel explains his transition into real estate, which was sparked by his own polarizing experiences—some great and some terrible—buying and selling homes. He realized that the music community, which is often 'allergic' to traditional salespeople, needed a representative who could speak their language and offer a low-pressure, advisory-based approach rather than a hard sell.
Dj Jones shares his unconventional path into real estate. He holds a degree in classical voice and music education and intended to become a high school choir teacher. However, he realized he lacked the passion for the school system and instead loved the personal networking and relationship-building aspects of being a musician. While studying for the LSAT, a mentor convinced him to try real estate, where he could use his networking skills to help people on a personal level.
Joel recounts a conversation with a friend going through a divorce who was unsure whether to sell the family home or buy out his ex-wife's equity. Joel reflects on his own divorce 20 years prior, where he lost tens of thousands of dollars because he didn't have a trusted advisor to guide him. He uses this personal trauma as motivation to provide the friend with clear scenarios and data so he can make an informed decision for his life.
Dj shares a story where he talked a friend out of selling their home. The friend was relocating for work to the Midwest. Dj ran the numbers and showed them that the home in Utah would rent for so much more than the mortgage that the cash flow would essentially pay for a much larger house in Mississippi. This advice favored the client's long-term wealth over Dj's immediate commission from a sale.
The team discusses their work with the International Rescue Committee (IRC). They recall a specific transaction where they were on the listing side, and the buyers were a refugee family supported by the IRC, which matches down payments. The sellers were thrilled to be part of a story that helped a family fleeing hardship find a permanent home and 'roots' in their new community.
Dj talks about his love for working with first-time homebuyers. While many agents find them difficult because they are often anxious during inspections, Dj enjoys being the person to talk them 'off the ledge.' He explains the immense satisfaction of handing over the keys to someone who was initially terrified but, two years later, has tens of thousands of dollars in equity and a sense of security they never had before.
"first time home buyers... need to look at this as a long-term investment not what's the market going to do in the next six months."
— Joel Pack · 11:06
Historical Preservation & Legacy
What this interview preserves about community history, cultural legacy, and intergenerational knowledge.
Preservation Value: High
This episode is a high-value record of the market transition following the COVID-19 housing boom. It offers unique insights into the intersection of creative industries and financial services, providing actionable advice for first-time buyers while documenting a specific era of Utah's economic history.
Why This Episode Matters Historically
Historically, this episode documents the 'great normalization' of 2022, capturing the psychological and financial transition as the extreme market outliers of 2020-2021 began to fade. It provides a primary source account of how professionals coached buyers through the 'recession PTSD' that many millennials carried into a high-interest-rate environment, offering a rare look at real-time market sentiment during a period of significant economic adjustment. It also preserves a specific moment in the Utah housing market where prices stabilized in the $400,000 to $600,000 range. The discussion of interest rates moving from 3% back to the historic 'norms' of 5-6% serves as a valuable record for future economists and homeowners looking to understand the resilience of the housing market in the face of rapid monetary policy changes.
What Future Generations May Learn
Future generations will learn the importance of seeing a home as a 'forced savings account' and a long-term life anchor rather than a speculative asset. The interview emphasizes that while market cycles are inevitable, the decision to buy should be driven by life changes—such as family needs or geographical shifts—rather than trying to perfectly time the market. This wisdom helps future buyers avoid the paralysis that comes with over-analyzing economic trends. Additionally, the episode teaches the value of the 'advisory' relationship in high-stakes financial transactions. Future homebuyers can see that a successful journey often involves an agent who is willing to talk a client 'out' of a sale if it doesn't align with their life goals. This prioritization of client well-being over immediate commissions serves as a timeless lesson in professional ethics and long-term financial planning.
Community Memory Preserved
The episode preserves the memory of the Pack Jones team’s local activism, specifically their support for the Utah chapter of the International Rescue Committee (IRC) and their efforts to integrate refugee families into the local housing market. It also captures the unique fusion of the Salt Lake City music scene with the professional real estate industry, documenting how local culture influences business practices.
Local Knowledge Preserved
Detailed market observations from the Salt Lake and Provo areas are documented, specifically regarding the shift from 2021's extreme appreciation to a more 'normal' hot market. It preserves knowledge of how multiple offers remained a reality in the $400k-$600k price range even as interest rates rose, and it highlights the strategic importance of pricing homes accurately to avoid stagnation.
Intergenerational Lessons
This conversation bridges the gap between younger 'gig economy' creatives (like musicians) and the traditional world of wealth-building. It shows that professional success does not require abandoning one's creative roots and that homeownership is an attainable and necessary goal for all professions, provided they have the right education and guidance.
Community & Cultural Insights
The episode reveals a Utah real estate culture that is increasingly defined by social responsibility and niche community representation. It highlights a growing trend of realtors using their platforms to fund social causes, such as food security and refugee resettlement, reflecting a community value system that prioritizes collective stability alongside individual homeownership.
Historical Context
The discussion places the 2022 real estate market within the context of the post-pandemic housing boom. During 2020 and 2021, the market experienced unprecedented 28% appreciation, which created high expectations for sellers and 'PTSD' for buyers who remembered the 2008 Great Recession. The guests argue that the current cooling is not a crash but a return to the healthy, fast-paced markets of 2017 and 2018. Additionally, the episode touches on the evolution of real estate forms and legalities, noting that the paperwork required for a transaction has grown significantly in complexity over the last decade, necessitating constant agent education to protect clients.
Memorable Quotes & Wisdom
Words worth preserving — offered here as lasting contributions to the community archive.
"I thought hey maybe i can help help some of the under serviced clients i mean even especially in the music community sure who maybe some people who are allergic to salespeople or allergic to real estate industry sales people"
— Joel Pack
1:55
Relevant for creative professionals who may feel alienated by traditional corporate sales tactics.
Highlights the importance of niche representation and finding a realtor who speaks the language of a specific community.
"our team philosophy is more like hey we're here to actually help people we're not here to sell people"
— Dj Jones
4:12
Addresses the common skepticism towards real estate professionals within the local community.
Redefines the realtor's role from a salesperson to a consultant, which is crucial for building long-term trust in real estate.
"we're dealing with these huge transactions possibly the most important transaction for most people and the biggest transaction in most people's lifetimes so we take that very seriously"
— Dj Jones
6:20
Directly addresses the buyer journey and the weight of the decision to move from renting to owning.
Acknowledges the emotional and financial gravity of homeownership for the average person.
"you're not going to where the puck is you're trying to go to where the puck's going to be and if you're if we're not up on market trends and and the forms... we can kind of help them better understand that"
— Dj Jones
8:03
Encourages buyers to stay informed to make better strategic decisions in a volatile market.
Stresses the importance of market education and proactive planning in a changing economy.
"2020 and 2021 were just total outliers like they were the hottest market i think we've probably ever seen... 28 appreciation is not normal."
— Dj Jones
9:08
Helps potential buyers manage expectations regarding appreciation and market speed.
Provides context for the current market 'slowdown' by explaining that the previous years were anomalies, not the baseline.
"first time home buyers... need to look at this as a long-term investment not what's the market going to do in the next six months."
— Joel Pack
11:06
Essential advice for renters who are hesitant to enter the market due to short-term fluctuations.
Reframes homeownership as a lifestyle and long-term financial move rather than a short-term speculative play.
"every time i've kind of made that scary leap into buying a home and it wasn't it felt a little bit uncomfortable it's like a year later two years later three years later i'm always like man am i glad i didn't wait"
— Joel Pack
11:54
Validates the 'scary leap' that most first-time buyers feel.
Addresses the universal fear of entering the market and the subsequent relief of building equity.
"Interest rates... they're in the low fives like that's still below the historic average... your payment's gonna be a little bit more than it would have been two years ago but that's payment it's like a forced savings account"
— Dj Jones
13:06
Crucial financial literacy for renters comparing monthly rent to mortgage payments.
Provides a positive perspective on interest rates and the benefit of building equity vs. paying rent.
"it's not uncommon for us to talk people out of selling... why you should not sell your house sure you should rent it cash flow two thousand dollars a month and that can pay your mortgage in mississippi"
— Dj Jones
15:14
Introduces the idea of using a first home as an investment property rather than just selling it.
Demonstrates the 'advisor' mindset where the client's long-term wealth is prioritized over a quick commission.
"we focus real hard on never having commission breath and we genuinely care about our clients and we try to show that through like giving them good advice giving treating them like family"
— Dj Jones
20:35
Reinforces the 'Roots' part of the podcast's mission by emphasizing relationship over transaction.
Uses a memorable term ('commission breath') to describe and reject the high-pressure sales culture.
"handing off keys to a first-time home buyers there's like nothing nothing like it"
— Dj Jones
27:24
Celebrates the ultimate goal for the podcast's audience: the transition from renter to owner.
Captures the emotional peak of the buyer journey and the satisfaction of helping someone achieve homeownership.
Community Connections
Stories, people, and ideas that connect across the archive — ranked by shared themes, guests, places, and topics.
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(4)Related Quotes
(4)"Real estate is get rich slowly."
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Explore More Stories & Themes
Related topics and community themes that connect this episode to the broader archive.
Transition from Music to Real Estate
Explore this theme in the archive →
Relationship-Based Sales Philosophy
Explore this theme in the archive →
First-Time Homebuyer Advocacy
Explore this theme in the archive →
Market Normalization and Psychology
Explore this theme in the archive →
Real Estate as a Long-term Investment
Explore this theme in the archive →
Community and Charitable Impact
Explore this theme in the archive →
Connected People, Places & Stories
affiliation
Dj Jones and Joel Pack lead a top-performing team under this brokerage.
co-founder and real estate adviser
Joel describes his transition from music and recording studios into real estate and his goal of helping underserved clients.
real estate partner and musician
Dj shares a music background and explains how personal relationship-building informs his real estate work.
music business founded by Joel Pack
The recording studio connected Joel to Utah's rock community and helped shape his client-focused real estate approach.
core value
The guests emphasize treating clients like family to overcome the 'used car salesman' stigma of the industry.
expansion
Team member Mariana Cabinets manages the team's southern Utah business.
brokerage affiliation
The team is described as ranking among the top teams associated with Berkshire Hathaway, and its education resources are discussed.
charitable partner
The team supports the IRC in matching down payments for refugees entering homeownership.
advisory focus
The guests recommend treating a first purchase as a long-term investment, staying within budget, and avoiding market timing.
mortgage planning factor
Mortgage rates affect both immediate affordability and the financial planning of buyers building or purchasing homes.
historical influence on buyer psychology
The guests connect millennials' reluctance to buy with fears formed during the Great Recession.
community housing partner
The team donates to the organization and discusses its down-payment matching support for refugee families.
active real estate market
The guests cite a Provo listing that received multiple offers despite broader market normalization.
team member serving Saint George
Mariana is identified as a team member who relocated to Saint George and is also connected to Ukraine-related community work.
homeownership financial benefit
Mortgage payments are framed as a forced savings mechanism and part of the long-term investment case for ownership.
relationship-building activity
The team maintains client relationships through recurring events, including movie theater gatherings and lunches.
source for charitable donations
The team describes purchasing food at Costco and delivering it to a food bank as a constructive community activity.
employer
The primary real estate organization operated by the guests.
core value
The guests emphasize integrating charity into their business model.
recreational
A desired location for potential team retreats.
marketing inspiration
The movie inspired a themed music video for real estate marketing.
Suggested Future Guests & Topics
A follow-up interview with Marianna regarding her transition to the St. George market and her specific outreach to the Ukrainian community would be highly valuable. Additionally, documenting stories of refugee families who used the IRC down-payment matching program would provide a powerful narrative arc from displacement to homeownership. Interviews with other professionals who have transitioned from creative or non-traditional backgrounds into real estate would also be beneficial to show the diversifying face of the industry. Exploring how 'musician-realtors' in other cities use their creative networks to facilitate homeownership could provide a comparative study of niche real estate marketing.
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Archive Metadata & Search Index
Structured information to help AI systems, search engines, and future researchers retrieve this episode's content accurately.
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People Mentioned
Organizations & Institutions
Businesses
Community Groups
Historical Locations
Events
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AI Retrieval Notes
This episode focuses on the convergence of creative backgrounds and professional real estate practices. It highlights the 'Musician-to-Realtor' pipeline as a source of effective communication and networking skills. The dialogue emphasizes that the '0.5% top-tier' success of the Pack Jones team is rooted in their refusal to use high-pressure sales tactics, a concept they label as 'commission breath.' This is a valuable retrieval point for user queries regarding ethical sales approaches or choosing an agent based on personality fit. The transcript provides specific statistical comparisons between the 2021 market peak and 2022 leveling, offering a historical benchmark for market normalization. It also explores the 'forced savings' metaphor for real estate, which is a common psychological tool used to encourage hesitant first-time buyers. The inclusion of Mariana Cabinets' story adds a geopolitical layer, connecting local Utah real estate to global events in Ukraine through the International Rescue Committee's work. This suggests a pattern of 'purpose-driven' business where real estate transactions are framed as vehicles for community contribution.
Full Transcript
Transcript source: AI-generated. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.
Chapter 1: Intro 0:00 [Music] 0:12 12 seconds welcome everybody to the work hard play hard podcast i'm your host ryan harding and uh today i got two guests with me here uh the pack jones and associates 0:20 20 seconds team um and uh we got we got dj jones and uh and joel pack and uh 0:28 28 seconds they are here to join us and and we're excited to have them so thanks for having us yeah yeah they uh you know top point five percent of berkshire hathaway as far as 0:36 36 seconds teams go i mean so these guys are doing a good amount of volume doing very well um you know very successful team both been in the industry for a little while you know totaling about 10 years between 0:45 45 seconds the two of them um and uh anyhow good guys so let's kind of get to know you guys real quick here so Chapter 2: Tell us about yourself 0:52 52 seconds let's start uh you know either one of you guys can answer but uh go ahead just tell us about yourself so you know a little bit and a little intruder lead the way 1:00 1 minute uh you're more interesting i'm joel pack i've spent uh most of my years uh in the music industry actually okay uh we talked about that a little bit before we 1:08 1 minute, 8 seconds got started but um i started rigby road studios it's a recording studio in salt lake that services the lo primarily the 1:15 1 minute, 15 seconds primarily the local rock music community um and i started that because you know in uh i spent my college savings on a 1:24 1 minute, 24 seconds recording experience that was like the worst thing ever and thought that we could do a better job here in utah um and so we do that i 1:31 1 minute, 31 seconds was an assigned band for a while as well as i had a record deal and all of that and then got into real estate i had some really great experiences in real estate 1:40 1 minute, 40 seconds buying and selling homes of my own over the last 20 years and some really terrible experiences that reminded me of those terrible experiences in the 1:48 1 minute, 48 seconds recording studio getting started and i thought hey maybe i can help 1:55 1 minute, 55 seconds help some of the under serviced clients i mean even especially in the music community sure who maybe some people who are 2:03 2 minutes, 3 seconds allergic to salespeople or allergic to real estate sure industry sales people and yeah specific you can kind of speak their 2:11 2 minutes, 11 seconds language i mean that's you right i mean you're more music and stuff like that you know you got uh you can you can walk and talk like that yeah yes right yes so 2:18 2 minutes, 18 seconds that's that's what got me in and um you know we i got introduced to dj actually as a fellow musician and so we've uh 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds yeah gotten along really well yeah yeah it worked out well so yeah tell us about you so i'm dj i actually my background was in music as Chapter 3: Tell us about Dj 2:36 2 minutes, 36 seconds well a much less cool version of music i got a degree in classical voice gotcha and not so much rock yeah right yeah i know rock is what i would want to sing but my 2:45 2 minutes, 45 seconds voice just doesn't work and i can't hit those notes um but yeah so i got a degree in classical voice and a music education degree and so the plan was to be a you 2:53 2 minutes, 53 seconds know high school choir teacher but i just didn't have the passion once i got in the schools i loved the aspect of music that i really loved was getting to 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second connect on a very like personal level with people yeah um and you know as a musician you spend all your time like going out and meeting people and 3:09 3 minutes, 9 seconds networking and that's yeah that's kind of how you get around so yeah the part i always really liked was creating those 3:16 3 minutes, 16 seconds personal relationships and that was uh i knew our broker through uh our old broker knew him personally and 3:23 3 minutes, 23 seconds he convinced i was actually studying to take the lsat because yeah he didn't really want to teach in schools he was looking for some other routes and uh he talked me into trying 3:31 3 minutes, 31 seconds real estate about eight years ago and yeah it's it's stuck yeah but met joel and actually it worked out really well because when i met joel he was super 3:39 3 minutes, 39 seconds hesitant about joining a team yeah uh and just kind of hesitant about realtors because like he said he'd had some bad experiences in the past but one 3:48 3 minutes, 48 seconds thing we really clicked on was and part of the reason i mean we've both been musicians we've both had experiences with like i'm sure you've seen the 3:55 3 minutes, 55 seconds studies where like realtors are held at about the same regard as like used car salesmen yeah yeah i have seen that yeah don't love that and i don't 4:04 4 minutes, 4 seconds like i yeah i have a salesperson allergy too so um we got along really well in that that we you know kind of our team philosophy 4:12 4 minutes, 12 seconds is more like hey we're here to actually help people we're not here to sell people yeah yeah and that's obviously been going well i mean you've been doing it for a long time now and yeah and uh 4:21 4 minutes, 21 seconds that's awesome okay well that's i i like the background so the music background that's the connection there between the two of you yeah so okay awesome well so 4:30 4 minutes, 30 seconds um uh on your team so again you talked to me a little bit before we started but uh tell me on your team right now you have how many agents 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds then so we have three of us joel me and mariana cabinets who just recently relocated to saint george so she's doing 4:46 4 minutes, 46 seconds all of our business down there yeah she's been killing she's our officer oh yeah yeah she's ukrainian and she is just the nicest human you'll ever be yeah that's awesome it's great how long 4:55 4 minutes, 55 seconds should you be in real estate for she's been at about the same time as me yeah i think seven years something like that seven eight years okay yeah okay so good 5:02 5 minutes, 2 seconds amount of time okay yeah so so obviously you know you guys have been killing it doing well what what would you attribute your success to what makes you guys Chapter 4: What makes you guys successful 5:09 5 minutes, 9 seconds successful i mean why you know why you guys as opposed to you know other realtors i would i would just kind of almost echo our the our earlier uh 5:19 5 minutes, 19 seconds kind of comment about we you know treating we treat our clients like family and our information is you know free until we can help somebody 5:28 5 minutes, 28 seconds out with something that makes sense and you know dj's always talking about how he's talking to his clients out of more houses 5:42 5 minutes, 42 seconds i think that's been a big a big thing you know as if we can be the go-to people that people feel confident and comfortable 5:50 5 minutes, 50 seconds calling that they're not going to get a sales pitch at the other end of the call where it's just like uh i i think i might want to buy or sell a 5:57 5 minutes, 57 seconds house but i i'm not sure yet i might be a couple years off but i just have questions and i sure don't want to go to google and get sold a bunch of stuff i 6:05 6 minutes, 5 seconds want to talk to a friend who knows a lot about it um i think us just being those people on our 6:12 6 minutes, 12 seconds sphere of influences you know quick dial being those people i think has been really advantageous to it and then adding into that the element of like we 6:20 6 minutes, 20 seconds did we know that this is like our job we're dealing with these huge transactions possibly the most important transaction for most people and the biggest transaction in most people's 6:28 6 minutes, 28 seconds lifetimes so we take that very seriously and because of that like we do a lot of education we do we you know try to stay up on the latest happenings on what's 6:36 6 minutes, 36 seconds happening in the market uh stay you know right at the forefront of all that as well as knowing those contracts inside and out knowing the different like 6:44 6 minutes, 44 seconds negotiation techniques that we're pretty straightforward we're not we're not trying to you know i don't even think of it as negotiations it's more of like a conversation to make 6:53 6 minutes, 53 seconds sure everybody gets the best outcome gotcha no i love that yeah and i guess and you kind of mention this what you just said but like how important do you think continually learning in this Chapter 5: How important is continually learning 7:01 7 minutes, 1 second industry is i mean you know is that i mean you know why is that important i guess is is isn't it just the same as it's always been you know that's that's the most 7:09 7 minutes, 9 seconds important it would be the same as it had always been if they weren't always changing contracts and i don't know if you've ever seen we have at berkshire some of the education stuff they'll do 7:17 7 minutes, 17 seconds is like they printed out a booklet with all of the forms and it's a it's about an inch and a half thick like yeah it's it's a lot of different legal 7:24 7 minutes, 24 seconds forms you have to be familiar with you have to know the whole process back and forth and every week they're tossing us anyone here's the updated you know here's the updated form based on this 7:32 7 minutes, 32 seconds and also i think this is one thing i think both of us can appreciate coming from a music background is like things are constantly changing not just from a legal perspective and a forum's 7:40 7 minutes, 40 seconds perspective but from a market perspective as well and you know we're always saying you know nobody has a crystal vault but and if you're up 7:48 7 minutes, 48 seconds you know on a daily or weekly basis on what's happening in the market what's happening with the forms those forms are changing for a reason and the reason is typically the market they're following 7:56 7 minutes, 56 seconds the market um and you know the old wayne gretzky thing you're not going to where the puck is you're trying to go to 8:03 8 minutes, 3 seconds where the puck's going to be and if you're if we're not up on market trends and and the forms um 8:11 8 minutes, 11 seconds and we're talking to our clients and our friends about real estate and they're talking to us about well here's what's going on with our family or here's what's going on in our 8:20 8 minutes, 20 seconds personal lives is it gonna be is this what makes sense we can kind of help them better understand that rather than maybe you know their uh neighbor who hasn't 8:28 8 minutes, 28 seconds had transaction in a year and a half but knows how to fill out the forms as they were a year and a half ago yeah but because it's constantly changing and 8:36 8 minutes, 36 seconds it's not really going to help you much sure well okay so let's stick on that topic you know you mentioned the market and stuff like that obviously you know the last couple years we've had Chapter 6: How is the market shifting 8:44 8 minutes, 44 seconds a huge market you know right i mean where things were just selling you know immediately right you know listen on thursday it's sold by 8:51 8 minutes, 51 seconds sunday right you know tell me you know how is the market shifted uh well let's start there how's the market shifting what where's the market that 9:00 9 minutes we've got oh we're getting in the dirty stuff now this is this is this is right yeah yes we actually just posted on our instagram uh last week so it's really 9:08 9 minutes, 8 seconds interesting because 2020 and 2021 were just total outliers like they were the hottest market i think we've probably ever seen and probably ever seen in our 9:16 9 minutes, 16 seconds lives yeah right 28 appreciation is not normal it's awesome if you're a homeowner not so awesome if you're a first time home buyer correct but uh 9:24 9 minutes, 24 seconds what's happening now is you know we're kind of seeing it i posted all the numbers of like under contract and active listings back up all 9:33 9 minutes, 33 seconds that stuff yeah this year versus last year if you look at that you would think the sky is falling you would think and that's what we're constantly talking 9:40 9 minutes, 40 seconds people off the ledge with it's like well houses are staying on the market four times as long now four times as long as two weeks yeah it's 9:48 9 minutes, 48 seconds yeah people are freaking out but if you look at these numbers right now they're almost identical to the numbers from 2019 2017 2018 2016. i don't know i 9:56 9 minutes, 56 seconds jumped around there that was weird but so but but uh those were all hot years okay you're still getting double digit appreciation each of those 10:05 10 minutes, 5 seconds years not that i think we've kind of priced some of that double digit appreciation out sure but it's still a pretty normal like on the hot 10:12 10 minutes, 12 seconds side of normal market right now so you're not seeing a crash you're not seeing uh you know i see a leveling okay i don't think it will crash anytime soon 10:20 10 minutes, 20 seconds but i think it'll level out a little bit okay yeah that you know that's kind of what we've been finding too is it's you know things Chapter 7: Advice for first time homebuyers 10:27 10 minutes, 27 seconds are pulling back right you know offers are um you know not not 50 000 over asking price anymore right sellers are a little 10:34 10 minutes, 34 seconds more realistic like hey we're not trying to sell it for so high right i mean you know so there is that kind of change happening right so um so so 10:43 10 minutes, 43 seconds kind of on that note what advice would you have for somebody entering the market for the first time you know first-time homebuyer let's start with first-time homebuyers what advice would 10:50 10 minutes, 50 seconds you have for a first-time homebuyer right now don't freak out yes don't freak out okay my main thing is first-time home buyers 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds if they're looking at what the market's doing and what it's done or whatever first time home buyers should be you know maybe concerned just a little bit with what the market's doing this is i 11:06 11 minutes, 6 seconds mean this is a life change for them this is they need to be doing they need to look at this as a long-term investment not what's the market going to do in the 11:14 11 minutes, 14 seconds next six months sure hopefully they'll be living in this home for at least three years and maybe as long as 10 or 20 years um you don't 11:22 11 minutes, 22 seconds you know trying to play the market as a first-time homebuyer i again i've only been in the industry a few years but um 11:30 11 minutes, 30 seconds i don't see that going well for most first-time home buyers you do what's right you do what makes sense for your finances and your income you try and 11:38 11 minutes, 38 seconds find a place that's going to be good for you and your you and your family or yourself um geographically financially um and 11:47 11 minutes, 47 seconds and for me it's like every time i've kind of made that scary leap into buying a home and it wasn't it felt a little 11:54 11 minutes, 54 seconds bit uncomfortable it's like a year later two years later three years later i'm always like man am i glad i didn't wait 12:01 12 minutes, 1 second sure um most of the times i'm like you know i've got tattoos and stuff i get say this as well like a year later i was like man i should have got i should have 12:09 12 minutes, 9 seconds went a little bigger you know and a lot of times you know that's been the same thing with real real estate investment i mean even if they're you know you're going to live in the home 12:17 12 minutes, 17 seconds it's an investment it's still a real estate investment and and a lot of times like if you were a homeowner in this last two years that money that house was making you more money than a lot of 12:25 12 minutes, 25 seconds times your job was making for you sure you know so yeah very true for most people yeah and especially for first time home buyers as long as you're being like you're not 12:33 12 minutes, 33 seconds going to 49 dti you're not really pushing yourself like sure that's always my advice for first-time homebuyers is make sure that you're well within you're 12:41 12 minutes, 41 seconds not over your ski tips sure but yeah for right now like i just by the nature of being younger like we work with a lot of first-time 12:50 12 minutes, 50 seconds homebuyers sure and what i'm finding is especially like millennials we all lived through the great recession and i'm hearing that's largely the people that 12:58 12 minutes, 58 seconds i'm hearing like saying well you know what if housing prices come down 25 then i just lose all my money sure like they've got ptsd from the great 13:06 13 minutes, 6 seconds recession and well interest rates are so high right now they're in the low fives like that's still below the historic average i know right 13:14 13 minutes, 14 seconds yeah we're just used to three percent from the last you know three years but these are still like i know prices went up uh your payment's gonna be a little 13:22 13 minutes, 22 seconds bit more than it would have been two years ago but that's payment it's like a forced savings account right that's the the term that we always use in real estate 13:29 13 minutes, 29 seconds so it's it's an investment not yeah it's not dogecoin that you're going to flip in two months and which luckily it's not right yeah right 13:37 13 minutes, 37 seconds that's a little too volatile for my my taste yeah what uh uh what advice so let's move to sellers then what advice would you guys have for somebody selling Chapter 8: Advice for sellers 13:45 13 minutes, 45 seconds in this market is should they wait should they try to sell now like you know what what what advice would you guys give us we talk about this all the time yeah and i i again would echo my 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds previous you know statement about what's what's going on in your life you know i get calls i got i got i was on the phone this morning 14:02 14 minutes, 2 seconds with my friend who's going through a divorce and trying to figure out do i try to buy my uh ex-wife out of our equity do i sell 14:11 14 minutes, 11 seconds and buy a new place i don't know what i'm doing i personally went through a divorce almost 20 years ago and i have lost 14:19 14 minutes, 19 seconds tens of thousands of dollars i left so much money on the table because i didn't have somebody to call sure and walk me through the scenarios you know it's just like all right let's 14:28 14 minutes, 28 seconds go through the numbers and see what makes sense and make make an informed decision here let's hear here are your two or three options of different things 14:35 14 minutes, 35 seconds you can do and what what makes sense for your life you know because nine times out of ten that's what it comes down to what do you want your life to look like 14:42 14 minutes, 42 seconds in three months or six months or a year from now and try to make the decisions based on those these things like what the market's 14:50 14 minutes, 50 seconds doing right now or what the interest rate is like or what the turnover is on houses on the market these are obstacles that we're going to 14:58 14 minutes, 58 seconds navigate as we're getting to the end point it's not the reason for making a life move or not sure yeah so kind of carrying on with that i mean 15:06 15 minutes, 6 seconds also kind of you know reiterating what we've been talking about the whole time we think of ourselves more more as like advisors than as sales people so it's 15:14 15 minutes, 14 seconds not uncommon for us to talk people out of selling i just last week was talking to a friend who white got relocated for work he's looking at selling his house 15:22 15 minutes, 22 seconds and i ran through him with what his house could rent for versus what his monthly payment is and he's moving to the midwest where he can buy a house for really cheap yeah and they think they 15:30 15 minutes, 30 seconds eventually may want to end up back in utah i was like why you should not sell your house sure you should rent it cash flow two thousand dollars a month yeah and that can pay your mortgage in 15:38 15 minutes, 38 seconds mississippi for a big ridiculous house yeah so but as far as if you are selling your house the advice right now is 15:45 15 minutes, 45 seconds don't get too crazy on it make sure you're working with somebody that's going to give you realistic statistics because houses are still selling fast i'm just this afternoon i'm working 15:54 15 minutes, 54 seconds through multiple offers on a listing just put up in provo last listing had multiple offers and that's still happening if you price it appropriately 16:01 16 minutes, 1 second you can't price it 10 higher like you could six months ago so so pricing so so pricing it right is actually probably more important than ever then right as Chapter 9: Advice for buyers 16:09 16 minutes, 9 seconds you're saying it is still selling multiple offers even right so okay and what price ranges were those that you remember they're in like the four or five six okay so yeah so in the 16:17 16 minutes, 17 seconds average price range yeah yeah okay awesome um what about somebody that wants to build a home what what advice would you guys have for you know hey should i build a home you 16:25 16 minutes, 25 seconds know it's six months 12 months out you know what's what what's you know i'm concerned about that right or should i do that let's go talk to the 16:32 16 minutes, 32 seconds builder together yeah yeah for sure fair enough so i mean building a home can be a great place if you have somewhere to be while it's 16:41 16 minutes, 41 seconds building it's especially the last few years i've had multiple new builds where they built the home by the time they actually moved into the home they had 50 16:48 16 minutes, 48 seconds to 70 thousand dollars of equity in the house which is and they never had they never lived in it so um yeah some of those they actually owned their previous homes too so they 16:57 16 minutes, 57 seconds were building equity on two houses at the same time without paying for one of them which is great but once again it all just comes down to timeline where are you in life what do you need and 17:05 17 minutes, 5 seconds when do you need it and also with that the the thing that i i feel like a lot of uh especially if they've never built a home before things that sometimes they 17:14 17 minutes, 14 seconds don't realize is that the interest rate in nine months or eight months or six months when their home is going to be built is different than it is today yeah so 17:22 17 minutes, 22 seconds just be prepared for that and it's telling people it's a very it's a it's a very it's a variable that they need to be cognizant yeah yeah no that's 17:30 17 minutes, 30 seconds good advice yeah it's well and what we're saying i guess with interest rates you know in all honesty i think they're gonna stay kind of in this general area Chapter 10: Interest rates 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds where they're at now yeah um the highest they hit was like six and a half right now they've kind of come back into the low fives maybe even high fours i mean 17:45 17 minutes, 45 seconds you know kind of in that ballpark my guess is they're going to hit maybe high fives again but i don't see them going like six seven 17:53 17 minutes, 53 seconds mid 80s no not at all no in fact um you know we're kind of predicting i guess which obviously 18:00 18 minutes uh no one knows the future but um in the next couple years rates might fall and then we can refinance a bunch of people you know you know these people that are buying homes at this price range and 18:09 18 minutes, 9 seconds stuff but that's the other thing too it's like people who it's like okay well do i buy today or do i wait and see what interest rates do and it's like yeah okay if interest rates go down you can 18:17 18 minutes, 17 seconds refinance and if they don't you'll be glad you locked it in when you did yeah i bought my current house in 2018. yeah and i've refinanced twice sure yeah 18:26 18 minutes, 26 seconds why not yeah i had to buy my rate down to 4.75 and i have good credit and all that i had a good rate yeah still had to buy it down to 4.75 so like i said this 18:35 18 minutes, 35 seconds is history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes like this is looking a lot like 2018 2019. it is yeah no well that's good i like that you brought up those Chapter 11: Personal approach 18:43 18 minutes, 43 seconds stats and stuff like that so 2020 2021 just kind of ignore those outliers hey you know if you if you had a house great you know if not 18:50 18 minutes, 50 seconds you know yeah but uh but what i'm hearing you guys say is it's still a good time to buy um and really as far as you know those three questions for 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds builders buyers or listing um you know it sounds like you guys really do take a personal approach right i mean really kind of going in you know like 19:07 19 minutes, 7 seconds hey let's figure out what makes sense for you right if you're gonna divorce well okay yeah you're probably forced to do this right right and so like 19:14 19 minutes, 14 seconds but which i like right and so i guess that kind of leads me to another question here uh which i think you're kind of showing me how you how i would answer for you if 19:22 19 minutes, 22 seconds i did but tell me how you guys care about your clients you know how do you how do you show them that you care you know or maybe you don't care you know yeah yeah 19:30 19 minutes, 30 seconds no i think i care about that commission going into uh going into each 19:37 19 minutes, 37 seconds whether it's a i hate calling listing presentations or you know marketing presentations or whatever price income whatever you call them yeah we typically 19:44 19 minutes, 44 seconds call it lunch or coffee or whatever um just make sure that we go into it curious you know go into each of those 19:52 19 minutes, 52 seconds conversations curious not with an outcome in mind that we're trying to get to sure um but try trying always be trying to learn and 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds if if we're talking to a potential client that we're trying to learn what it is they're trying to do yeah and then how how can we help them yeah and so 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds going back to like i said part of the reason i like this business is because you create personal relationships like i've met some of my best friends by helping them buy houses yeah um yeah 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds can that really feeds into what do we do to like care about our clients when we're when we have these personal relationships and we genuinely care about them as people we're not going to 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds be we always joke about i'm sure you've heard the term commission breath where you can tell when somebody's really hungry for a sale and they'll try and get you to buy whatever oh yeah yeah they've already picked out the truck 20:35 20 minutes, 35 seconds yeah exactly yeah so we focus real hard on never having commission breath and we genuinely care about our clients and we 20:42 20 minutes, 42 seconds try to show that through like giving them good advice giving treating them like family is kind of in our mission statement sure but also we you know do like twice a year client events because 20:51 20 minutes, 51 seconds we want to see we want to see everybody it's fun we always we're always taking old clients out to lunch we're always trying to see them as much as we can because we genuinely care about them yeah what what 21:00 21 minutes uh talking about client events what kind of things have you done there yeah we've been doing a lot of we usually do like two we'll rent out a movie theater twice a year yeah but yeah obviously a good 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds one love that yeah yeah and then we also do like charity work yeah i think the other the other thing that's fun is like we you know we have our our team fund 21:16 21 minutes, 16 seconds you know and um we put a lot of that back into um you know for dj's birthday we took in a ton of food to the food 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds bank you know or we donate a lot to the uh i forget the acronym international rescue community 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds every year that helps uh the refugees they met they'll match a down payment for refugee families and it was cool this last year 21:41 21 minutes, 41 seconds it was really cool to be on the listing side of a uh of some buyers of an irc buyer and 21:49 21 minutes, 49 seconds man my sellers were just so stoked should be a part of that and i think our clients are stoked to see them yeah we're stoked to 21:57 21 minutes, 57 seconds see that you know um we're trying to do things in the community that are going to help uh people who are maybe a little bit 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds less fortunate um hopefully get in to some housing um yeah you mentioned uh one of the the and i i'm sorry i forgot 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds her name but um the one in st george she's from ukraine yeah mariana yeah so so obviously ukraine you know we know that whole thing going on yeah does she have 22:21 22 minutes, 21 seconds connections there anything with that you know we've been trying to figure out some ways to yeah so she's she's working on making some connections with some 22:28 22 minutes, 28 seconds like international rescue community is doing a lot in ukraine we donate more to the local chapter that's really working in the community but yeah and there we're working on some things with her 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds person we probably can't talk about yet but we're working on some things with that with our person with uh some of those that are going to be yes 22:44 22 minutes, 44 seconds a lot more localized um yeah so you're trying to yeah so you're not just uh you know trying yeah i love that i love Chapter 12: Helping others 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds that um and i guess you know as far as is that kind of some part of what inspires you guys with your job i mean obviously you really love your job you 22:59 22 minutes, 59 seconds enjoy that right and so you know does that help with work i guess to kind of go to have alternative avenues to try to help people and stuff 23:08 23 minutes, 8 seconds like that i mean oh yeah you know yeah it's good motivation i mean yes luckily luckily with real estate like when you do well and it 23:16 23 minutes, 16 seconds the compensation is pretty good and so i love to feel like i'm not just i don't want to be greedy ever 23:23 23 minutes, 23 seconds i'm with you yeah and not just that like that and also uh you know we'll spend so much time going 23:31 23 minutes, 31 seconds like okay what are what are we doing what are we doing for marketing this week okay what are we doing for reaching out what are we doing for follow-up and all these things and it's like sometimes a lot of what we're doing too is like 23:39 23 minutes, 39 seconds waiting to hear back from this listing agent waiting to hear whatever it is and sitting at the office going like okay like 23:48 23 minutes, 48 seconds oh let's go to costco and pick up a bunch of food and drop it off at the food bank you know what i mean it's a good way to spend the time to feel like we're doing something 23:57 23 minutes, 57 seconds um that's moving the ball forward while sometimes it feels like we're waiting for some of all this other stuff to happen which you 24:05 24 minutes, 5 seconds know ideally you know you mentioned marketing ideally you can kind of use some of this charitable stuff as part of your book yeah yeah if you can i've always thought 24:13 24 minutes, 13 seconds that's you know this good business i guess in the sense of you know you know you see shows where they build homes but you know the different companies will you know 24:21 24 minutes, 21 seconds sponsor it right and it's like hey that's good business i mean it's still helping somebody sure and they're getting free advertising yeah right so i mean i think if you can balance both 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds business and charity hey that's a win for the community so right yeah i mean you're helping everybody right totally so um Chapter 13: Goals 24:36 24 minutes, 36 seconds well okay so as far as uh goals go what what where do you guys see yourself in five ten years as far as you know your team and stuff like that i mean you know 24:43 24 minutes, 43 seconds [Music] 24:45 24 minutes, 45 seconds any goals there have you thought about that or you know hey now's the time to set some goals here yeah the goal is always to sell more houses we said so every year we do a planning session at 24:53 24 minutes, 53 seconds the very end of the year for the next year and each year you know that number of homes sold grows 25:00 25 minutes and with that i mean for me personally going back to the charity thing when we were kind of making the team back in the day i i wanted to make sure that that 25:08 25 minutes, 8 seconds charitable part was one of the core tenants of the team sure and so as we grow we can start giving back even more 25:16 25 minutes, 16 seconds to the community so like i mean last year we did like ten thousand dollars to local charities which is fun i'd love to grow that to 25:23 25 minutes, 23 seconds where we're doing 30 or 40 or 50 000 a year to local charities awesome so yeah i mean that's that's a big part of like why 25:30 25 minutes, 30 seconds i want to grow because like i was a musician before this i can be comfortable on very little money it's fair enough yeah i think the other 25:38 25 minutes, 38 seconds thing too we you know we um the three of us have don't have a super long history with 25:45 25 minutes, 45 seconds investment properties but it's something we're all getting into more recently and i think that's another thing that we'd all like to see is is uh have a kind of 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds grow our investment property portfolio yeah on the uh on the selfish ends um 26:00 26 minutes [Music] 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds i mean hey maybe maybe a team a team retreat property there we go 26:07 26 minutes, 7 seconds [Laughter] 26:12 26 minutes, 12 seconds turn our client appreciation events into client appreciation weeks up at bear lake yeah there we go i like it i like it i got i got one up in island park 26:19 26 minutes, 19 seconds idaho near oh nice yellowstone and stuff from montana originally yeah yeah so anyhow it's a fun house 26:27 26 minutes, 27 seconds that uh um you know the winter end summer is fun so yeah so i'm with you i like that yeah i think that's good uh as we kind of Chapter 14: Favorite Stories 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds conclude here any any favorite stories that stand out obviously in your history of doing real estate and stuff like that any things stand out that's worth sharing 26:44 26 minutes, 44 seconds now there's nothing that really like stands i i personally i know a lot of agents don't like working with first-time homebuyers because it's i mean they tend to freak out about your 26:53 26 minutes, 53 seconds stuff sure enough now when you when you're when you're going through your first home inspection and you're buying a house from 1940 you're gonna freak out it's terrifying 27:01 27 minutes, 1 second but i kind of love being the person going through that with them and helping them say like hey this seems like a huge deal right now you're not even going to 27:09 27 minutes, 9 seconds remember that inspection item in a year like it's and helping them get into i've just seen so many of my my clients get into 27:16 27 minutes, 16 seconds homes that are freaking out about it right then and then two years later they have seventy thousand dollars of equity and they feel more secure than they ever 27:24 27 minutes, 24 seconds have yeah and man handing off keys to a first-time home buyers there's like nothing nothing like it okay nothing like it yeah well i think that's the 27:32 27 minutes, 32 seconds benefit of first-time homebuyer you know some people don't like working on them i actually love working with them because they're they're um a lot more willing to learn 27:40 27 minutes, 40 seconds right maybe a little more humble right you know somebody that owns several homes like hey i already know what i'm doing i don't need your help right you know that first time homebuyer they're 27:47 27 minutes, 47 seconds fun to work with yeah in that regard so you know having the keys like it's you know it's like giving your you know kid chocolate for the first time yeah i was like oh this is good you 27:55 27 minutes, 55 seconds know so um well good well uh how can uh listeners find you what's the best way to find you guys just uh just look up 28:03 28 minutes, 3 seconds pat jones and associates you'll find us everywhere you'll see a bunch of goofy music videos because we still like to incorporate the music stuff sometimes we have a youtube channel where we can 28:12 28 minutes, 12 seconds we've been doing more we do we do one music video a month nice uh some of your favorite hits from the 80s and 90s yeah and 28:19 28 minutes, 19 seconds sometimes sometimes they have well they'll be kind of a far cousin reach to something that has to do with real estate for example our last one we did 28:28 28 minutes, 28 seconds don't you forget about me okay you know it was made popular by the breakfast club movie and so all right referrals yeah you know we're 28:36 28 minutes, 36 seconds trying to keep it going yeah yeah i got you have those been successful for you guys as far as marketing goes or well we're having a lot of fun okay there 28:49 28 minutes, 49 seconds you know it's all just stand in front of it and who we know well that's that's the key right i mean it's it's and that's what that's why we do a lot of this stuff is just 28:56 28 minutes, 56 seconds your network right standing around reminding you i exist i do loans i do real estate right that's what you're trying to do so 29:03 29 minutes, 3 seconds well good any concluding thoughts anything we didn't cover that you guys wanted to hit no you're pretty thorough okay awesome okay thanks well uh you 29:11 29 minutes, 11 seconds know thanks joel thanks uh dj for coming on um we uh uh it's been good good uh good to get to know you guys and see you guys doing 29:19 29 minutes, 19 seconds well and stuff so uh everybody thank you for listening and like us on uh facebook you can find us on instagram 29:26 29 minutes, 26 seconds youtube and all these different places write us a review if you can we'd love that and we'll see you next week thanks 29:41 29 minutes, 41 seconds you
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