Costco, City Growth & Community Leadership | Ken Greenwood’s Lehi Legacy
Former Mayor Ken Greenwood reflects on Lehi’s transformation from a ghost-town Main Street and agrarian roots to a burgeoning city, exploring the resilience required to build a community.
Ken Greenwood
Two-Term Mayor and Entrepreneur
At a Glance
Archive Scoring
Introduction
Ken Greenwood’s narrative is a profound testament to the cyclical nature of community life in Lehi. He begins with the gritty determination of his ancestor, Thomas Karren, one of the city's first settlers, who literally threw his coat on the ground and refused to move further, claiming his space in the desert. This ancestral stubbornness is mirrored in Ken’s own life when he purchased a series of boarded-up buildings on a deserted Main Street in the 1960s. His recollection of standing in the middle of a thoroughfare without a single car in sight serves as a haunting snapshot of a town at a crossroads, waiting for a catalyst to return to life.
The heart of this record lies in the moment of crisis—a devastating arson fire that gutted Ken’s furniture and reception center. Rather than a story of loss, Ken frames this as the moment he truly discovered the soul of Lehi. The community’s rally, culminating in a $10,000 fundraiser, was more than a financial gift; it was the social contract that propelled him into public service. His transition from an entrepreneur to a two-term mayor is presented not as a political climb, but as a debt of gratitude to the neighbors who wouldn't let him fail.
Ken offers a rare, candid look at the friction between heritage and progress. He describes the visceral memory of sheep being driven through Main Street to pack down the winter ruts—a practical, agrarian solution to infrastructure—and contrasts it with the modern struggle of managing a population that exploded from 15,000 to nearly 100,000. His admission of 'dropping the ball' on transportation planning provides a rare moment of vulnerability for a public official, emphasizing that leadership is often a series of lessons learned in real-time under the pressure of unprecedented change.
Beyond politics, Ken reflects on the social fabric of Lehi, moving from the 'pool hall' culture of his youth to his later years of dedicated religious service. He speaks with warmth about the evolving nature of acceptance within the community, noting how the town has moved from judging people by their adherence to strict social codes to a more inclusive understanding of character. This shift represents the 'soft' infrastructure of Lehi—the gradual thickening of social ties that allows a small town to grow into a city without losing its humanity.
Ultimately, Ken’s story is about the architecture of a life spent in service of a place. Whether it was putting new motors in dental vacuums, laying carpet in high school classrooms, or presiding over city council meetings, Ken’s labor has been stitched into the very floors and foundations of Lehi. His legacy is found not just in the buildings he saved, but in the honest perspective he offers on what it means to grow old alongside your hometown.
Episode Overview
A detailed look at the topics, people, and context of this conversation.
In this episode, Ken Greenwood, a two-term former Mayor and longtime entrepreneur, joins host Ryan Harding to bridge the gap between Lehi’s pioneer past and its high-tech future. Ken shares vivid stories of his family’s settlement in 1850 and his own efforts to revitalize Main Street during a period of economic stagnation. The conversation spans his career in the floor-covering business, the community-shattering and then community-building experience of a major fire, and his eventual foray into city leadership during a time of explosive growth.
Ken provides a unique perspective on the 'Old Lehi'—a place of dirt roads, sheep herds, and local pool halls—and how that culture transitioned into the modern era. He discusses the complexities of city planning, the regrets of infrastructure management, and the shifting social dynamics of a town that was once religiously insular. His reflections offer a roadmap of the city's physical and social expansion over the last sixty years.
Emotional and honest, the episode touches on themes of resilience, the importance of family, and the humility required to lead. Ken’s stories of his wife Rita, his mission to Kenya, and his experiences as a 'non-traditional' member of the community provide a rich layer of human interest that transcends municipal history. It is a recording of a man looking back on a life of work, realizing that the 'roots' of Lehi are what allowed its many 'branches' to reach so far.
Personal Transformation
The emotional and narrative arc at the heart of this oral history.
Ken Greenwood’s narrative arc is a profound study in the evolution of identity, moving from the fringes of Lehi’s social and religious center to becoming its chief executive and a global servant. Born into a lineage of early settlers but raised within the 'beer joint' culture of the mid-20th century, Ken spent his early years navigating a community that often judged individuals by their proximity to the 'Word of Wisdom.' His transformation began with an entrepreneurial spirit that saw value where others saw decay, leading him to buy up a boarded-up Main Street when he was barely established in his trade. This willingness to take risks laid the groundwork for his later civic courage.
A pivotal turning point occurred not in a council chamber, but in a bedroom on a Sunday morning. When his young son questioned why the children had to attend church while their father stayed in bed, Ken experienced a moment of profound clarity regarding his role as a leader within his own home. This realization catalyzed a shift from a man consumed by the grueling labor of his floor-covering business to one who sought spiritual and communal alignment. He traded his work boots for a suit, not out of a desire for status, but out of a realized responsibility to set a standard for the next generation.
His tenure as mayor further refined his character, forcing him to transition from a private business owner who could make unilateral decisions to a public servant who had to navigate the complexities of community growth and political friction. He learned the hard lesson that leadership often involves admitting failure, particularly regarding the city’s burgeoning infrastructure. This humility allowed him to leave office not with bitterness, but with a sense of completion, enabling him to embark on a mission to East Africa where his identity shifted once more—from a local authority figure to a global neighbor.
Ultimately, Ken transformed from a man trying to prove his worth in a town that initially looked down on his background, to a man who defined his own worth through service, sacrifice, and the preservation of community. His story is one of 'jumping the fence'—moving between the secular and the sacred, the private and the public—to find a balanced life of meaning.
Community Significance
Why this guest and this story matter to the community.
Ken Greenwood’s impact on Lehi is physically etched into the city’s landscape. During a period when Main Street was a ghost town of plywood-covered windows and empty sidewalks, Ken’s decision to purchase and revitalize multiple buildings acted as a catalyst for the commercial heart of the city. He didn't just open a business; he created a reason for people to return to the town center. His creative repurposing of grocery stores into wedding centers and furniture galleries provided a blueprint for the modern 'mixed-use' mentality that defines successful small-town revitalizations today.
Beyond the physical structures, Ken addressed a critical social void for Lehi’s youth. By championing the creation of dedicated recreational spaces, he moved the community away from a 'shoestring' sports program that lived at the mercy of high school gym schedules to a robust, city-supported system. This shift recognized that a growing city needs its own 'living rooms' for its children to develop, separate from the educational system. His leadership during the population explosion from 15,000 to 40,000 residents was a bridge between Lehi's small-town past and its metropolitan future.
Ken also served as a cultural bridge. Coming from a family that operated pool halls and saloons, he represented a segment of Lehi’s history that is often overshadowed by its religious narrative. His presence in the mayor's office was a testament to the community's expanding inclusivity, signaling that leadership was accessible to all who were willing to serve, regardless of which side of the 'social fence' they were raised on. This helped soften the rigid social boundaries of mid-century Lehi.
Finally, Ken’s significance is found in the way the community rallied around him during personal tragedy. When his business was lost to arson, the town’s response—raising significant funds through community banquets—demonstrated the strength of the social fabric he had helped weave. This mutual support system is a hallmark of Lehi’s identity, and Ken’s life provides a primary example of how the community protects its own 'builders.'
"My grandfather took off his coat and throwed it on the ground and says, 'I'm going to starve to death. I moved to starve to death here.'"
— Ken Greenwood · 1:41
Key Themes & Life Lessons
The ideas that run beneath the stories — and what they teach about community, leadership, and belonging.
Community Revitalization and Main Street Development
Rapid Urbanization and Population Growth
Pioneer Ancestry and Generational Identity
Entrepreneurship and Family-Run Business
Public Service and Local Governance Challenges
Religious Cultural Evolution
Infrastructure and Transportation Planning
Community Building
Wisdom & Life Lessons
Ken shares a profound political truth: 'Friends come and go, but an enemy is forever.' This wisdom highlights the high stakes of public life and the long memory of a small town. He also emphasizes that 'you tend to start believing what you associate with,' a reminder of the power of community and social circles in shaping an individual's worldview.
Another piece of wisdom is found in his transition from physical labor to management: 'There are no old floor mechanics.' This serves as a practical lesson on the expiration date of the human body and the necessity of preparing for a 'second act' in life. His eventual mission to Kenya reinforces the idea that one's greatest work may occur after their professional career has ended.
Key Takeaways
- 1Ken Greenwood's ancestry dates back to one of the original five families to settle Lehi near Utah Lake.
- 2During a period of economic stagnation, Greenwood bought and revitalized multiple buildings on Lehi Main Street to stimulate the local economy.
- 3A major arson fire in the 1960s tested the business, but the Lehi community rallied to raise ten thousand dollars for their recovery.
- 4The population of Lehi more than doubled during Greenwood's eight-year tenure as mayor, moving from roughly 15,000 to 40,000 residents.
- 5Greenwood reflects on the failure of city leadership to scale transportation infrastructure alongside residential growth.
- 6Personal transformation is highlighted through Greenwood's shift toward active religious service and a mission to East Africa.
- 7Leadership in a growing town involves navigating the tension between 'ready-made' amenities like parks and essential infrastructure like roads.
Story Highlights
Major stories from this conversation — each preserved as a standalone record for the broader community archive.
Ken Greenwood recounts the arrival of his maternal ancestor, Thomas Karren, one of the first five families to settle Lehi. After being pushed out of various locations along American Fork creeks by other settlers, the group ended up on the northern shore of Utah Lake. Faced with the prospect of moving yet again, Karren threw his coat on the ground in a dramatic act of defiance, declaring he would rather stay and starve than move another inch. They tore their wagons apart to build makeshift shelters and survived the winter, establishing the foundation of what would become Lehi.
Emotional Significance
There is a profound sense of desperation and exhaustion, but also a hardening of resolve that defines the pioneer spirit.
Why This Matters
It establishes Lehi not as a place of ease, but as a place chosen out of necessity and grit.
Life Lesson
Sometimes progress requires drawing a line in the sand and committing to a place, even when survival isn't guaranteed.
Transformation
The group moved from a state of transient uncertainty to a permanent settlement through sheer stubbornness.
What It Reveals About Ken Greenwood
Ken deeply values his ancestral roots and the physical struggle required to build the town he later led.
What It Reveals About the Community
The city was founded on marginal land that required extreme resourcefulness to inhabit.
Community Value Preserved
The memory of the 'founding five' families and their specific arrival location near Utah Lake.
For future generations: It provides a visceral connection to the land and the cost of the first structures in the city.
In the 1960s, Main Street Lehi was economically desolate, with nearly every building displaying a for-sale sign. Ken Greenwood and his brother decided to buy these properties because they were cheap and available. He describes a haunting moment standing on Main Street and seeing not a single car in either direction, wondering if he had made a terrible mistake. To stimulate business, they renovated buildings, connected them with a shared roof style, and created a dual-purpose furniture store and wedding reception center. They discovered that wedding guests waiting to enter the reception would browse the furniture, turning foot traffic into a viable business model.
Ken shares a local folk tale and personal memory centered around his grandfather’s pool hall. He recalls the 'sheep's foot' effect where massive herds of sheep driven through Main Street would level the ruts in the dirt road. One day, a runaway wagon team struck a child. The frantic mother ran into the pool hall to find a man named 'Jack Mormon,' a local who drank and played pool but held the priesthood. When the man refused to give a blessing because he felt unworthy due to his drinking, the mother famously declared, 'I don't need you. I need your priesthood.' She forced him into the street to administer a blessing, highlighting the community's complex intersection of faith and human imperfection.
After an arson fire gutted the Greenwoods' furniture store and reception center, the family was left devastated. In response, the town of Lehi rallied to support them. They organized a massive fundraising banquet with turkey and gravy, raising $10,000—a staggering sum in the 1960s. This event not only provided the capital for the Greenwoods to get back on their feet but also instilled in Ken a deep sense of debt and gratitude to the community. This moment of collective generosity was the primary catalyst that eventually led him to run for mayor.
During his busiest years as an entrepreneur, Ken worked from daylight until long after dark. On Sundays, he would stay in bed, exhausted. One morning, he overheard his wife, Rita, trying to get their young sons ready for church. One of the boys asked, 'Why do we have to go to church? Dad doesn't have to go.' Ken describes the immediate internal 'jolt' this gave him. He realized that his actions were speaking louder than his words. He got out of bed, found clothes that fit, and has been an active participant in his faith community ever since.
Ken reflects on growing up in a family that ran a 'beer joint' (The Curve In) in a town where the 'Word of Wisdom' was strictly observed. He notes that in his youth, his family was often looked down upon by the more active members of the LDS church. However, over the decades, he has witnessed a shift in Lehi’s culture. He observes that the community has become more accepting of people who are 'not colored with the same pencil,' moving away from judgment based on outward habits and toward valuing people for who they are.
While trying to go back to school in Logan, Ken took a job digging gas line trenches in the mud during a rainstorm. Later, while doing floor covering work, a client complained about Ken's high pay for a job completed quickly, saying, 'Doctors don't even make that much money.' Ken’s response was a mental 'I’ll show you.' He took immense pride in the efficiency and skill of his trade, eventually building a business where his family—including his mother and brother—worked together. He views the trade of floor covering as a noble, skilled profession that requires both physical grit and mental sharp-mindedness.
"I've often said you there's one prerequisite to being mayor. What is that? You have to have a low IQ. You can't be very smart."
— Ken Greenwood · 10:30
Historical Preservation & Legacy
What this interview preserves about community history, cultural legacy, and intergenerational knowledge.
Preservation Value: Exceptional
This episode captures a rare convergence of pioneer lineage, small-town business history, and the political complexities of a city undergoing explosive growth. It preserves unique local folklore (the sheep’s foot, the milk depot) and offers a vulnerable look at the personal transformation of a city leader. The insights into the transition from a 'pool hall culture' to a 'civic service culture' provide a social history of Lehi that is not found in official city records.
Why This Episode Matters Historically
This episode serves as a vital record of Lehi’s 'Great Transition.' It documents the specific moment when the city moved from a rural, agricultural-based community to a suburban powerhouse. Ken’s eyewitness account of Main Street—observing a total lack of traffic—provides a stark, quantifiable contrast to the gridlock of modern Lehi, offering future historians a 'ground zero' perspective on the city's commercial revival. Furthermore, the episode preserves rare oral traditions regarding early 20th-century life, such as the 'sheep's foot' method of road maintenance. The detail that sheep were driven down Main Street specifically to level the ruts caused by winter mud is a piece of vernacular history that explains the pragmatic relationship between the town’s industry and its infrastructure. It also captures the evolution of the LDS Church’s social influence in Lehi, moving from a period of strict judgment to a more pluralistic and accepting environment.
What Future Generations May Learn
Future residents of Lehi will learn that the city they inhabit was built through the sheer willpower of individuals who refused to let the downtown die. They will see that the infrastructure challenges they face (traffic, roads, planning) are not new, but are the result of a decades-long struggle to keep pace with an unprecedented population boom. Ken’s candid admission of 'dropping the ball' on transportation serves as a timeless warning for future planners: growth without foresight creates a permanent debt for the next generation. They will also learn the value of a trade. In an increasingly digital world, Ken’s life demonstrates how mastery of a physical craft—floor covering—can provide the financial and social capital necessary to build a community. The lesson is that to lead a city, one must first know how to build a house, manage a business, and survive a fire. Lastly, they will learn about the 'Karren legacy'—a reminder that many of the families who settled this land are still here, evolving with the times. The story of Thomas Karren throwing his coat on the ground in a gesture of stubborn survival serves as a foundational myth for the city’s grit, a quality Ken clearly inherited and applied to his own modern-day challenges.
Community Memory Preserved
This record protects the memory of the 'Log Cabin Saloon' and the Larson Market, early landmarks of Lehi commerce. It preserves the story of the 1960s community fire banquet, a moment of collective generosity that could easily be forgotten in a city now four times that size. It also captures the specific humor and self-deprecation of Lehi’s political culture, exemplified by the 'low IQ' requirement for mayors. Crucially, it preserves the 'Jack Mormon' folk tale—a story of a man who, though not living according to church standards, was still recognized by the community for his spiritual authority in a moment of crisis. This story illustrates the complex, intertwined nature of faith and friendship in a small town. It also saves the memory of the 'Milk Depot,' where innovation meant selling milk in plastic bags to save families money, a detail that reflects the pragmatic, blue-collar roots of Lehi’s economy.
Local Knowledge Preserved
The record details the specific architectural changes to Main Street, including how two separate grocery store buildings were joined by a mansard roof to create a unified facade. It documents the exact location of the 'Curve In' beer joint in American Fork, providing geographical context for a lost social era. It also explains the specific logistics of early youth sports in Lehi, which relied on the 'appropriation' of every available gymnasium, including the old armory.
Intergenerational Lessons
The most enduring lesson for future leaders is the distinction between 'where someone is' and 'who someone is.' Ken’s plea for acceptance and his own journey across social divides teaches that potential is often hidden behind perceived social or religious shortcomings. He encourages future generations to look past the 'color of the pencil' others are drawn with. For entrepreneurs, Ken’s life teaches that opportunity is often found in what others have abandoned. Buying up the for-sale signs on Main Street wasn't a gamble on real estate as much as it was a gamble on the community’s future. His success shows that local business owners are the true anchors of a city’s stability. For families, the lesson is one of presence. The story of Ken’s son asking about church serves as a reminder that children are the ultimate auditors of their parents' values. Leadership, Ken suggests, begins at the bedside and the breakfast table long before it reaches the city council. Finally, the episode teaches that failure is a necessary part of a long legacy. By admitting he failed at transportation planning, Ken teaches future leaders that honesty about one's shortcomings is the only way to ensure the next generation doesn't repeat them. Legacy is built on both what you achieved and what you admit you left unfinished.
Community & Cultural Insights
Lehi is revealed as a community of 'sturdy survivors,' a trait inherited from pioneers who were literally 'kicked out' of other settlements until they reached the shores of Utah Lake. The culture is one of deep, often quiet, loyalty—demonstrated when the town raised $10,000 to help the Greenwoods after a fire. This act of 'turkey and gravy' diplomacy shows how Lehi solves problems: through food, fundraising, and face-to-face connection.
The transcript also highlights the historical tension between the town's blue-collar work culture (centered around pool halls and the Geneva Steel mill where Ken's father worked) and the dominant religious culture. Over time, Lehi has moved toward a synthesis of these two, where service and civic contribution have become the common ground. The rapid growth described—from 5,000 to 100,000—shows a community struggling to maintain its 'pioneer' identity while becoming a modern tech and residential hub.
Historical Context
The narrative spans from the mid-19th century settlement of Lehi by Thomas Karren and other pioneer families to the rapid 21st-century urbanization of northern Utah County. It captures a specific transitional era when Lehi shifted from a small, agricultural community where sheep herds were used to level dirt roads (the 'sheep’s foot' method) to a burgeoning suburban hub of 100,000 people. Culturally, the episode explores the mid-20th-century social dynamics of Lehi, including the 'pool hall' culture and the strict social adherence to the Word of Wisdom. It documents the evolution of Main Street from a vacant strip of for-sale signs in the post-WWII era to a modern commercial center, contextualizing the entrepreneurial risks taken by local families to preserve the town's core before the massive tech-driven population boom.
Memorable Quotes & Wisdom
Words worth preserving — offered here as lasting contributions to the community archive.
"My grandfather took off his coat and throwed it on the ground and says, 'I'm going to starve to death. I moved to starve to death here.'"
— Ken Greenwood
1:41
Connects modern residents to the grit and desperation of the city's five original settling families.
A raw, humorous, and visceral account of the founding families' struggles settling in Lehi, humanizing the pioneer narrative beyond simple valor.
"I stand outside one day and looking up and down Main Street. There was not one car coming or going or parked. Not one. I thought what the hell have I done?"
— Ken Greenwood
2:47
Provides a stark contrast to the modern-day traffic and bustle of Lehi's commercial districts.
Captures the economic vulnerability of Lehi's Main Street during its decline and the immense risk taken by early local entrepreneurs.
"They ran them through Main Street because their feet of the sheep would flatten out the ruts that was in the street from the winter."
— Ken Greenwood
5:36
Highlights Lehi's deep agricultural roots and the transition from mud roads to modern thoroughfares.
A fascinating detail of community ingenuity and agricultural life where livestock served as an early form of infrastructure maintenance.
"I need you to come out and give my boy a blessing... I can't do that. I'm not worthy. And she says, 'I don't need you. I need your priesthood.'"
— Ken Greenwood
6:48
Reflects the cultural and religious fabric of Lehi and the shared belief systems that bonded the community in times of crisis.
A local folk tale that captures the nuance of faith, community expectations, and the separation of personal fallibility from religious duty.
"The town really rallied around us... help us get back on our feet. I think the banquet they had raised $10,000. That was a lot of money back in the 60s."
— Ken Greenwood
9:08
Shows how Lehi transitions from a group of neighbors to a collective support system during tragedies.
Demonstrates the strength of Lehi's social safety net and the concept of mutual aid after a devastating fire.
"I've often said you there's one prerequisite to being mayor. What is that? You have to have a low IQ. You can't be very smart."
— Ken Greenwood
10:30
Humanizes local government leadership and Ken Greenwood's approachable, humble style as a public servant.
Uses self-deprecating humor to illustrate the heavy burden and often thankless nature of public service.
"I dropped the ball. And everybody since me has dropped the ball... by not addressing that problem by getting those things fixed."
— Ken Greenwood
12:32
Directly addresses the number one complaint of current residents—traffic—and offers an honest historical perspective on why it happened.
A rare moment of political accountability regarding the rapid growth of Lehi and the lag in infrastructure development.
"We do have a tendency sometimes to judge people by where they are instead of who they are... We're more accepting of people who are not necessarily colored with the same pencil."
— Ken Greenwood
15:17
Speaks to the shifting social dynamics as Lehi grows from a homogeneous small town to a diverse urban center.
Reflects the moral evolution of the community toward greater tolerance and understanding of people with different lifestyles or beliefs.
"You little I wasn't the first one you asked to go to the toward pearl dance, was I?... That's okay. At least I was the last."
— Ken Greenwood
17:21
Preserves the personal, romantic history that underpins the larger community story.
A tender and humorous insight into a long-term marriage and the serendipity of how local families are formed.
"Why do we have to go to church? Dad doesn't have to go to church... I'm laying there thought, 'Oh shit.' So I got up... I've been going to church ever since."
— Ken Greenwood
19:07
Illustrates the typical stressors and family dynamics within the Utah County cultural landscape.
Highlights a pivotal moment of personal transformation triggered by the realization of his influence as a father.
"Friends come and go... But make an enemy politically. You never lose them. They'll never forget a political wrong if if it affected them."
— Ken Greenwood
28:41
Warns future leaders about the personal costs of public decisions and the long memories of community members.
A sobering observation on the long-term social consequences of local politics in a small community.
Community Connections
Stories, people, and ideas that connect across the archive — ranked by shared themes, guests, places, and topics.
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Related Quotes
(4)"Lehi City is the economic engine of the state of Utah."
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Related Themes
(4)Civic Leadership
Profiles of the people who shaped local government, planning, and policy in Lehi — and what their stories reveal about what good leadership actually looks like at the community level.
Community Resilience
How Lehi residents have navigated challenge, change, growth, and hardship — and emerged with optimism, connection, and a deeper appreciation for what they've built together.
Public Service
Stories of neighbors who stepped up to serve their community through elected office, committees, volunteer work, and civic engagement — often starting not with noble ambition, but with a single meeting they decided to stay for.
Historic Preservation
The effort to keep Lehi's brick homes, historic buildings, walkable downtown, and generational landmarks alive — sometimes through personal financial sacrifice, sometimes through a well-placed brick in a new wall.
Ways to Serve
(4)Explore More Stories & Themes
Related topics and community themes that connect this episode to the broader archive.
Community Revitalization and Main Street Development
Explore this theme in the archive →
Rapid Urbanization and Population Growth
Explore this theme in the archive →
Pioneer Ancestry and Generational Identity
Explore this theme in the archive →
Entrepreneurship and Family-Run Business
Explore this theme in the archive →
Public Service and Local Governance Challenges
Explore this theme in the archive →
Religious Cultural Evolution
Explore this theme in the archive →
Connected People, Places & Stories
Economic Catalyst
Ken Greenwood purchased multiple vacant buildings to prevent the economic collapse of the downtown area.
ancestor
Direct ancestor and one of the original five families who settled in Lehi.
Ancestry
Ken's great-great-grandfather was one of the original five settlers of the community.
economic center
The focal point for Greenwood's business revitalization efforts.
Governance
Ken served as mayor during a critical 25,000-person population spike.
business development
A historic property remodeled by Greenwood into a salon and milk depot.
Community Resilience
The community raised $10,000 to help the Greenwoods recover from a devastating arson fire.
urban development challenge
The core political and social struggle identified by the guest regarding Lehi's transformation.
Employment
Ken's father worked at Geneva Steel, representing the industrial history of the region.
economic project
The negotiation for Costco's entry into Lehi was a defining municipal project for Greenwood.
community inspiration
The Legacy Center was created to honor the service of Mike Hansen to local youth programs.
infrastructure development
The Legacy Center represents the core of Greenwood's legacy project in Lehi.
political adversary
Kumer was a council member who clashed with Greenwood over his mayoral candidacy.
core conflict
Greenwood expresses bitterness regarding public perception and lasting political enemies.
economic development
Mayor Greenwood played a pivotal role in securing necessary infrastructure for their location.
governance
The city faced financial struggles requiring major infrastructure overhaul during Greenwood's tenure.
legacy
The modernization of the electrical grid was a key achievement for fiscal profitability.
professional collaboration
Greenwood and Carter worked together on enforcing building plan compliance.
Suggested Future Guests & Topics
Rita Wing (Rita Greenwood) should be interviewed to discuss the role of women in navigating the social and religious divides of mid-century Lehi. Members of the Karren family could be interviewed to expand on the 'five families' settler narrative. Mike Hansen would be a critical interview to document the grassroots history of Lehi’s youth sports programs. Finally, business owners who currently inhabit the buildings Ken renovated on Main Street could offer a 'then-and-now' perspective on the city's commercial evolution.
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Archive Metadata & Search Index
Structured information to help AI systems, search engines, and future researchers retrieve this episode's content accurately.
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AI Retrieval Notes
This episode serves as a primary source for the mid-to-late 20th-century economic history of Lehi, Utah. It provides specific details on the 'reclamation' of Main Street and the transition from a labor-based economy to a service/leadership-based one. The narrative is rich in metaphors for growth, specifically the transition from sheep herds flattening road ruts to the modern asphalt infrastructure challenges. It highlights a recurring theme in Lehi oral histories: the tension between preserving small-town values and accommodating the 'Silicon Slopes' population explosion. Key patterns include the 'accidental leader' archetype—a businessman entering politics to solve immediate community problems (youth sports facilities, road access). It also captures the cultural shift within the LDS community from rigid social judgment to broader acceptance. Researchers should look for the connection between the 1960s fire and the subsequent political goodwill that likely paved the way for Greenwood's mayoral run.
Full Transcript
Transcript source: manual. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.
Chapter 1: Welcome to Roots and Branches of Lehi 0:00 Welcome to Roots and Branches of Lehi, 0:03 3 seconds the podcast where we get to know the faces, stories, and lives that make up our community. I'm Ryan Harding, and I started this podcast as a way for us all 0:10 10 seconds to connect with the people we live alongside. Growing up in a small town, I learned that connections go beyond blood. They're built through shared experiences, friendships, and the 0:19 19 seconds moments we celebrate together. Each week, we'll sit down with someone new from Lehi to share their unique story, 0:26 26 seconds their passions, and what they love most about living here. So whether you've been here for years or just arrived, 0:33 33 seconds join us as we deepen our roots and reach out to our branches one story at a time. Chapter 2: Family History & Early Life in Lehi 0:39 39 seconds Welcome Ken Greenwood to Roots and Branches of of Lehi. We're excited to have you on the podcast today and get to 0:45 45 seconds know you a little bit better. So um you uh g give me a little background about yourself. Are you always from Lehi or or 0:54 54 seconds give me give me uh you know how long have you been here for? my great greatgrandfather uh William Karen. He was uh Thomas 1:04 1 minute, 4 seconds Karen. He was uh one of the first five families to settle here. Okay. 1:10 1 minute, 10 seconds And uh they uh came here and they had a hard place hard time finding a place to settle. Yeah. 1:18 1 minute, 18 seconds Because American Fork people had people have camped along the creeks and one thing another with the water. They got kept get kicked out of here and kicked out of there. 1:27 1 minute, 27 seconds Yeah. 1:27 1 minute, 27 seconds They ended up down on the shore of le of Utah Lake. Okay. Just just north of Utah Lake. 1:33 1 minute, 33 seconds And uh they're talking about moving again. And according I read this one of the books, my grandfather took off his coat and throwed it on the ground and 1:41 1 minute, 41 seconds says, "I'm going to starve to death. I I I moved to starve to death here." Okay. 1:46 1 minute, 46 seconds And uh so they must have uh been a little bit persuaded because that's where they stayed for the winter. They tore the wagons apart and tried to make some shelters, one thing another. 1:56 1 minute, 56 seconds So, it's uh that's how my my maternal side of the of the family got here. Yeah. Chapter 3: Revitalizing Main Street 2:03 2 minutes, 3 seconds And uh and if you fast forward uh my brother and I, we were in business American for primarily doing floor coverings and Okay. 2:12 2 minutes, 12 seconds that type of stuff. And uh just about every building on Main Street Lehi had a 4x8 uh piece of plywood painted white with for sale on it. 2:22 2 minutes, 22 seconds Mhm. And I drive them down. I thought, well, maybe I ought to buy them. So I bought them all. Okay. They were cheap. 2:29 2 minutes, 29 seconds Everybody was trying wanted to get rid of them. Yeah. 2:31 2 minutes, 31 seconds And uh we put businesses in each one of them. Okay. 2:35 2 minutes, 35 seconds We moved our business from from uh American Fork over to here. Mhm. 2:40 2 minutes, 40 seconds And uh we uh I stand outside one day and looking up and down Main Street. There 2:47 2 minutes, 47 seconds was not one car coming or going or parked. Not one. Not one. 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds Not one car. The whole Yeah. 2:54 2 minutes, 54 seconds far as I could see west I could see. Not one car. Wow. I thought what the hell have I done? And uh Yes, sir. 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second Anyway, was uh you thought what what could we do to maybe help stimulate customers? This type of thing. 3:08 3 minutes, 8 seconds Yeah. So, uh, where you guys where the Parker Brown building was. Yeah. 3:13 3 minutes, 13 seconds We, uh, that was a a vacant, uh, grocery store and had been vacant for several years. Sure. 3:20 3 minutes, 20 seconds And, uh, we took both sides of that building. We put that man roof that's on the front of it now to to hook the two buildings together so they look like one. 3:30 3 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah. And uh we put uh we put a uh kind of a wedding uh reception center type thing, smaller thing in the small side. 3:40 3 minutes, 40 seconds Okay. 3:41 3 minutes, 41 seconds And then we had we went in the furniture business had all our furniture displayed in the larger side. Mhm. 3:46 3 minutes, 46 seconds We thought, well, if people come to weddings, let them stand outside while they're waiting to get in, they could stand inside. Yeah. 3:53 3 minutes, 53 seconds And I like that couch or I like this chair. Maybe I like that lamp. Yeah. 3:57 3 minutes, 57 seconds And actually worked. Uh people would go in and we had it decorated uh I think quite nice on chandeliers and hanging 4:05 4 minutes, 5 seconds glass ceiling and all that kind of stuff. Sure. And it worked out. Chapter 4: The Pool Hall & Community Stories 4:08 4 minutes, 8 seconds And uh where the old uh uh blue rock limestone building is. Mhm. 4:15 4 minutes, 15 seconds That was uh my grandfather when I was growing up, he ran the pool hall there. 4:22 4 minutes, 22 seconds In fact, I have that bar in that was inside that pool hall in my home right now. Oh, wow. Nice. 4:28 4 minutes, 28 seconds Hauled it out and took it up home and kind of refurbished it and make kind of a a bar for our kind of a Yeah. party room type thing. Yeah. 4:35 4 minutes, 35 seconds In fact, I remember going in there as a kid with my dad. He'd go to have a uh he's going to have a beer. Mhm. 4:42 4 minutes, 42 seconds And I sit on the end stool closest to the door. Mhm. 4:45 4 minutes, 45 seconds And uh grandpa would set a little shot glass on the on the bar and import for squirt. Mhm. 4:52 4 minutes, 52 seconds Then when nobody was looking, he give me a little drink of beer. Uhhuh. 4:54 4 minutes, 54 seconds So that's where that's where I found out I like beer. Okay, there we go. 4:58 4 minutes, 58 seconds And a story of yesterday around I assume it's true. Uh one of the uh uh main 5:05 5 minutes, 5 seconds street out here that was a uh thorough affair for for uh uh for the traffic going east and west just like it is now. 5:14 5 minutes, 14 seconds Y only then it was uh it was mud and in the winter and hard dry dirt in the summer. 5:20 5 minutes, 20 seconds Yeah. In fact, they used to run the sheep herds as they would run them through town, 5:25 5 minutes, 25 seconds especially in the spring. They'd be bringing them from uh their winter pastures out west and bring them through town and take them up on the mountains up to the east. 5:35 5 minutes, 35 seconds And they do them just on Main Street. 5:36 5 minutes, 36 seconds Well, they ran them through Main Street because their uh their their feet of the sheep would flatten out the ruts that was in in the street from the winter. 5:46 5 minutes, 46 seconds Oh, 5:46 5 minutes, 46 seconds in fact, there's a a tamper they use in roaching structure. I call it the sheep's foot tamper. Uhhuh. 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds Uh cuz all those hundreds of thousands of sheep walking would would just kind of level the ruts out. 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds So it was actually helpful for the Oh yeah. They done it on purpose. Yeah. 6:02 6 minutes, 2 seconds And uh but there was a story goes that there was a uh a guy that was used to always be in the pool hall. 6:10 6 minutes, 10 seconds Mhm. 6:11 6 minutes, 11 seconds And uh there was a runaway with the team in a wagon. Mhm. 6:14 6 minutes, 14 seconds And a lady was crossing the street with one of her children. I don't know. boy or girl, I don't know, and the uh the 6:22 6 minutes, 22 seconds little kid got hit with the wagon on this runaway team, and she went running in the uh the pool hall and wanted to know where so and so was. 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds Mhm. 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds He was uh we call him Jack Mormons and he was a Mormon. Sure. Latter Day Saint guy. Yeah. 6:36 6 minutes, 36 seconds But he he like go play a pool and drink a beer. Yeah. Yeah. 6:40 6 minutes, 40 seconds And uh so uh she went running in and she grabbed him and he says, "I need you to come out and give my boy a blessing." 6:48 6 minutes, 48 seconds So, it must have been a boy. Yeah. And uh and he says, "I I can't do that. I'm not I'm not worthy." 6:54 6 minutes, 54 seconds And she says, "I don't need you. I need your priesthood." 6:57 6 minutes, 57 seconds And so, she always brought out and made him go give her kid a blessing. I assume the kid left because I didn't. That's what we're hoping they did. Yeah. Wow. 7:05 7 minutes, 5 seconds That's kind of a folk tale thing that come out of the Sure. 7:08 7 minutes, 8 seconds But it uh but anyway, we went uh we put a gift shop in that building. the uh it 7:16 7 minutes, 16 seconds was the next building down was the old Larson Market. I think that started out as a saloon. 7:23 7 minutes, 23 seconds I think they call the log cabin saloon or something. But uh we remodeled that into a uh a hair salon business. Mhm. 7:30 7 minutes, 30 seconds And then in the kind of little lean to thing on the side where they kept their compressors and that for the for what used to be a market. Uh we cleaned all 7:39 7 minutes, 39 seconds that out and we put a milk depot in there. 7:41 7 minutes, 41 seconds Okay. And uh there was a dairy down in Delta that was uh marketing milk and 7:49 7 minutes, 49 seconds then put it in plastic bags and and uh you seal it. Mhm. 7:54 7 minutes, 54 seconds Saved all of the the bottling and expenses of bottles and caps and all that kind of stuff. 7:59 7 minutes, 59 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So we started marketing that uh that milk through there because we sell it cheaper than well anyway and we kind of market it. There's a new bag in 8:08 8 minutes, 8 seconds town and sure kind of work. 8:10 8 minutes, 10 seconds But then uh and in the uh if you go on uh what is it? Second west the building 8:20 8 minutes, 20 seconds across I think there's Alton's carpet is in there. 8:24 8 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah. Uh we bought that building and used that more or less as a as a uh as a warehouse for a carpet pad and that kind of stuff. Chapter 5: Challenges & Triumphs in Business 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah. 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds And then we had a uh a fire that pretty well uh uh gutted the the furniture 8:40 8 minutes, 40 seconds store and the reception center and all that kind of stuff. How'd the fire start? 8:43 8 minutes, 43 seconds Uh it was uh uh we think it was arson by kids. Mhm. 8:49 8 minutes, 49 seconds Uh, one of my wife's relatives, she sought school up at Lehigh Elementary and one of the little kids, I think she taught first grade. 8:58 8 minutes, 58 seconds Mhm. 8:58 8 minutes, 58 seconds A little kid kept telling my my brother set fire to that store. Oh. 9:03 9 minutes, 3 seconds And the family moved out of town, so we assumed that that's what happened. Oh, wow. 9:08 9 minutes, 8 seconds And the uh and the town really rallied around us. They had some banquetss and fundraisers and this type of stuff that uh to help us, you know, 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds get back on your feet. 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds Get back on our feet and really help us that I think the I think the banquet they had raised $10,000. Wow. 9:27 9 minutes, 27 seconds Uh that was a lot of money back in in the in the 60s. That was That is a lot of money actually. Yeah. That was a lot of money now. Yeah. But it was a lot more money then. 9:35 9 minutes, 35 seconds It was a lot more money then. Sure. Yes. In the 60s for sure. 9:38 9 minutes, 38 seconds Sure. turkey and gravy and that to yeah show up many people. 9:42 9 minutes, 42 seconds But uh anyway, it was we felt kind of like a uh uh we actually turned the 9:48 9 minutes, 48 seconds whole the whole place into reception center uh without the furniture and that we concentrated primarily on on floor 9:57 9 minutes, 57 seconds coverings and and wall coverings and that type of stuff. And it uh kind of based on that experience with uh uh one 10:06 10 minutes, 6 seconds of one of our Kent Sheepard uh was in the market in Coler's market one night. 10:12 10 minutes, 12 seconds Why don't you run for mayor? And the more I thought about that, you know, you know, maybe I can help give back to the community. Sure. Uh by, you know, serving the community. 10:20 10 minutes, 20 seconds And yeah, Chapter 6: Entering Public Service 10:21 10 minutes, 21 seconds that's why I uh kind of got in the mayor business. I there's I've often said you there's one prerequisite to being mayor. 10:30 10 minutes, 30 seconds What is that? 10:31 10 minutes, 31 seconds You have to have a low IQ. You can't be very smart. You can't be very smart. 10:36 10 minutes, 36 seconds This and I thought, well, I qualify for that. There we go. Okay. 10:40 10 minutes, 40 seconds So, I thought, well, if I got low enough IQ, maybe I can run it. So, anyway, I ran for two terms. I served two terms and got kicked out. I'm actually really glad they did. 10:49 10 minutes, 49 seconds Are you? because we ended up uh being called on a mission to uh Kenya and I will be a mission in East Africa. Wow. 10:56 10 minutes, 56 seconds My wife and I and and I'm uh those experiences we had there and the people that were still engaged with even today almost 20 about 20 years later. 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds We're still uh uh it was a life-changing event going there and I'm I felt good about being mayor. We done some good things, made some mistakes. 11:18 11 minutes, 18 seconds Sure. all the thing was. But uh uh just looking at the uh reading your list there about things to do, I think we 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds really dropped the ball as a town that we went from uh I think there was somewhere around 15 16,000 people. 11:33 11 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah. 11:34 11 minutes, 34 seconds When uh I went in as mayor 8 years later, I think there was close to 40,000 people. Okay. 11:40 11 minutes, 40 seconds And today I think there's close around 100,000 people. 11:43 11 minutes, 43 seconds Yeah. We basically have the same transportation system now as we did. 11:48 11 minutes, 48 seconds It's the same pioneer transportation system. They all they've done is put hard top over the rut so we don't run the sheep or town to level it out anymore. Sure. 11:56 11 minutes, 56 seconds But they're basically the same roads. Yeah. 11:58 11 minutes, 58 seconds When there was uh 3 to 5,000 people when I grew up in town. 12:02 12 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah. And uh I think as as an elected official uh we rebuilt 12 East to have 12:11 12 minutes, 11 seconds some type of a artery to get people off the bench. Yeah. 12:14 12 minutes, 14 seconds And now uh what used to be just a almost a country road has stop sign or stop lights on. It's in incredible. 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds The amount of traffic's coming down that. And now we're uh uh we put all these people here with without a really 12:32 12 minutes, 32 seconds a good transportation system put together. I dropped the ball. Sure. 12:35 12 minutes, 35 seconds And everybody since me has dropped the ball. Sure. 12:38 12 minutes, 38 seconds By not addressing that that problem by getting those things fixed. Sure. 12:41 12 minutes, 41 seconds Well, it should have been a priority and it was, you know, just we'll build houses. It'll take care of itself. It doesn't. 12:47 12 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah. you needed prior planning and and uh so I'm not throwing rocks at anybody without throwing myself first. 12:55 12 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Sure. Yeah. 12:56 12 minutes, 56 seconds And it uh so as far as what I see politically, I think that's that's one place where I think I should have I could have done a better job 13:04 13 minutes, 4 seconds is is with the roads and the infrastructure. Sure. Sure. 13:07 13 minutes, 7 seconds So that uh so that's basically why I'm here and how I'm here and type of thing. So yeah, if there's anything else you want to ask me or 13:15 13 minutes, 15 seconds I do I do. So, let's go back into some of those things. So, so, um, uh, so, you know, talking about Lehi and stuff like 13:23 13 minutes, 23 seconds that. Um, you know, what was it like to grow up in in a place that, you know, 13:27 13 minutes, 27 seconds you said it was 15,000 people to, you know, like I mean, a very small town. 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds What was what was that like to grow up in a place like this that was very, you know, just very small, you know, very farming community kind of thing? That 13:40 13 minutes, 40 seconds uh I'll talk about from my side of the family. Okay. 13:43 13 minutes, 43 seconds Yeah. Uh uh like I mentioned my my grandfather uh ran the pool hall. Yeah. 13:51 13 minutes, 51 seconds And uh and then my my mom and dad uh they ran a beer joint in American Fork called the curve in. Okay. 13:58 13 minutes, 58 seconds It was right uh as you in uh West American Fork as you come around on Highway 89. You come down you meet into 14:07 14 minutes, 7 seconds there's a car dealership right on the you meet right in there. 14:12 14 minutes, 12 seconds Yeah. And this building, this beer joint was right on the left hand side. Yeah. 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds And there was a uh an open air dance hall right by the beer joint. Good place to have a dance hall and a beer joint. Sure. Dancing. 14:25 14 minutes, 25 seconds Dancing and partying. Go together. Sure. Sure. Type of thing. 14:29 14 minutes, 29 seconds And when I grew up uh uh the word of wisdom was really a strong strong uh 14:35 14 minutes, 35 seconds part of the church here in town. And uh and so it's looking back on it uh coming 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds from a family that uh uh smoked cigarettes and drank beer. Yeah. 14:47 14 minutes, 47 seconds And this type of thing was looked down on to a certain extent. Sure. 14:52 14 minutes, 52 seconds And it uh and I'm glad to see that change. Yeah. 14:55 14 minutes, 55 seconds Uh I've I married a girl was very active in the church. Uh she asked me on a date. 15:01 15 minutes, 1 second She shouldn't have been asking me on a date. Sure. 15:02 15 minutes, 2 seconds She she jumped the fence. She shouldn't have done that. 15:05 15 minutes, 5 seconds She's been praying the price now for almost six seven years. Sure. 15:09 15 minutes, 9 seconds But we've had a good marriage and we've been active in the church and I I'm not throwing rocks at anybody, but it's uh 15:17 15 minutes, 17 seconds uh we do have a tendency sometimes to judge people by where they are instead of who they are. Sure. 15:23 15 minutes, 23 seconds And it's uh that's been a good lesson for me to learn. Yeah. And it uh I'm not thrown off at anybody, 15:30 15 minutes, 30 seconds but you ask me the question, what's changed? 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah. Uh that's the change I've seen happen. Sure. 15:35 15 minutes, 35 seconds We're more uh more accepting of people who are not necessarily colored with the same pencil. Sure. 15:41 15 minutes, 41 seconds And or believe exactly the same as we we do. 15:45 15 minutes, 45 seconds So that's one of the things that I see that's affected me and Yeah. 15:48 15 minutes, 48 seconds that I've been a part of and I've lived it. Yeah. Type of thing. 15:51 15 minutes, 51 seconds Yeah. No, I like that. Especially I mean, you know, you mentioned your wife obviously she she must have had a good influence. You know, maybe she got you to jump the fence back, I guess. Is that what you know? 15:59 15 minutes, 59 seconds Well, we're quite honorable. 16:03 16 minutes, 3 seconds It was it was the first girl girls choice dance. Uhhuh. And I mean forever. Sure. 16:09 16 minutes, 9 seconds And uh so when I the the phone rang and I said hello and said this is Rita Wing 16:16 16 minutes, 16 seconds and I just uh called if you'd uh like to go to the torp twirl dance with me. Mhm. 16:22 16 minutes, 22 seconds And I thought gee was I didn't know there was a torp twirl dance. I have no idea. Sure. 16:27 16 minutes, 27 seconds And I said yeah I'll go. And so we went and had a good time, all this kind of stuff. And then uh uh I played football 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds in high school and uh we had just uh played Pleasant Grove and they beat us 7 to6. Okay. 16:43 16 minutes, 43 seconds They went on and took state that year. And we thought we should have beat him. 16:46 16 minutes, 46 seconds We was on Yeah. 76. We was on a one foot line. Oh wow. 16:49 16 minutes, 49 seconds And we couldn't get it across before time went out. Oh no. We lost seven. 16:53 16 minutes, 53 seconds And she came out on the field and oh nice job like that you you know. So, 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds we'd been married for a couple of years and uh and I sat in on the chair went in. I looked on a bookshelf by the chair. I recently I pulled out a 17:06 17 minutes, 6 seconds yearbook and it was her yearbook the year that we got together and uh then I'm looking through this 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds yearbook. I see these boys little checks by their names, you know. I'm looking there's a check by not by name. Yeah. 17:21 17 minutes, 21 seconds And I thought and about that time she came walking through the door and I says, "You little I wasn't the first one you asked to go to the toward 17:29 17 minutes, 29 seconds pearl dance, was I?" And the looked on her face, I says, "That's okay." I said, 17:33 17 minutes, 33 seconds "Okay, at least I was the last." So, but it's uh so it was uh uh she she waited 17:41 17 minutes, 41 seconds too long to ask somebody to dance. All the good ones was taken. So, she ended up with me. 17:45 17 minutes, 45 seconds So, she ended up with you. So, it uh Hey, good. Good. That worked out for you, though? Well, yeah, it worked out really good. 17:52 17 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah. And it's worked out good. We've had we got three boys and or four boys and a girl and they're all upstanding great kids. Good. 18:01 18 minutes, 1 second And contributors wherever they're at and they're uh it's been a not bragging on them, but they're they're good citizens. 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds They don't And it's uh so it's one of the better things happened to me in my life. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's it. 18:16 18 minutes, 16 seconds Well, so so tell me the you know uh you know you you talked obviously about um going on a mission you know and and and 18:23 18 minutes, 23 seconds you started off you know in the pool hall and the drinking and stuff like that. Where where where was the transition you know in your life as far as you know maybe activity in in uh in the church and stuff. 18:33 18 minutes, 33 seconds Well we were in business here in Lehi and I was working literally from almost daylight to long after dark. 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds Sure. And uh uh I was uh uh when it comes Sunday, I mean, I was I was just pooped out. I just give out. 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds Sure. I mean, I was laying there and my wife, she she always went to church. Mhm. 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds And one day I'm laying there in bed Sunday morning and uh she was kind of getting after her two boys, getting ready. We got to hurry, you know, get 19:03 19 minutes, 3 seconds going. And one of the boys, I don't know if it's Scott or Brad, probably Scott. 19:07 19 minutes, 7 seconds He was the oldest. He says, "Well, why do we have to go to church? Dad doesn't have to go to church. Sure. 19:13 19 minutes, 13 seconds And I'm laying thought, "Oh shit." So I got up and fumbled through through the claws who had anything fit to go to church. Yep. 19:20 19 minutes, 20 seconds And so I got went to church. I've been going to church ever since. 19:23 19 minutes, 23 seconds And it's and you tend to start believing what you go start associating with. Sure. 19:28 19 minutes, 28 seconds So it's I got more views on things. I won't try to preach religion to you, but Sure. 19:34 19 minutes, 34 seconds I stay close enough to the line. They haven't kicked me out yet. Good. 19:37 19 minutes, 37 seconds They told me I couldn't come. Hey, we're we're glad you're on that side of the line, I guess, right? So, that's good. That's good. Whatever. So, you got another question. I'll try to answer that. 19:45 19 minutes, 45 seconds Well, so so so talk to me then about um you know what, you know, going back to your business and stuff like that. So, Chapter 7: Building a Floor Covering Business 19:53 19 minutes, 53 seconds um what what made you go into floor coverings and and doing that kind of stuff? What uh was was I mean, because what what drew you to that that world? 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds Uh, I was driving, uh, we live in Salt Lake and and, uh, I'm living in Lehi and driving to Salt Lake for work. I was 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds working for a kind of a dead-end job, a little manufacturing company called vacuent manufacturing. And I was, my job 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds to take, you know, when you go to the dentist, they would suck all the stuff out of your mouth. Sure. 20:22 20 minutes, 22 seconds Those machines, I was putting new motors in. They'd get all plugged up and Yep. 20:25 20 minutes, 25 seconds burn the motor out. And I didn't I really didn't like it. Sure. And here again, Ken Shepard, 20:31 20 minutes, 31 seconds uh he was uh I bought a uh 1956 hard trip Mercury convertible. Okay. 20:37 20 minutes, 37 seconds And I thought, well, I'll have uh I'll give people rides to Salt Lake and he can pay me to go to Salt Lake and I'll pay for my car. Sure. 20:45 20 minutes, 45 seconds And so it worked out. And uh and he was working at the time for a uh a uh a floor covering distributor, 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds Vulker Company in Salt Lake. and he uh he said, "Well, why don't you uh they're looking for somebody to he knew I was 21:02 21 minutes, 2 seconds unhappy where I was at. He said, "Why don't you go uh go see these people and tell them I sent you and maybe they'll give you a job." Yeah. 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds So, I did and I started uh they gave me a job and I was working there and and they basically taught me the trade. 21:14 21 minutes, 14 seconds Okay. And uh and I started uh doing a few little jobs down here in Lehi and they were the store their stores in Salt Lake. 21:22 21 minutes, 22 seconds I was buying the material off from off from them and just coming down and just doing the labor on weekends and stuff like that. 21:28 21 minutes, 28 seconds And uh one night the guy told me to uh uh why don't you uh uh we can't have you do that anymore. 21:36 21 minutes, 36 seconds Yeah. 21:37 21 minutes, 37 seconds I said, "What do you mean you can't?" He said, "Well, we can't allow that." I said, "Well, I'm buying all the material off you." I said, "Well," he said, "Well, you can't do that." 21:44 21 minutes, 44 seconds And uh I told him, I said, "Why don't you why don't you just take this job and shove it where the daylight doesn't shine?" I said, "He, what did you say to me?" I said, "You heard me." 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah. And so that's basically I quit. Sure. Sure. 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. You say those things that typically Yeah. Okay. 21:59 21 minutes, 59 seconds And uh so it uh and I kind of had in my back of my mind to uh uh go back to 22:06 22 minutes, 6 seconds school. And so we took off and went to uh Logan looking for a job. My dad's cousin was head of the uh the uh math 22:16 22 minutes, 16 seconds department there at Utah State University. Okay. 22:19 22 minutes, 19 seconds And uh went and talked to him and and uh he says, "Yeah, I can help you whenever we know him." And so I'm looking for a 22:27 22 minutes, 27 seconds job and and uh they were putting the gas lines in uh there in uh in Logan and I 22:35 22 minutes, 35 seconds had on my best clothes and there was they were digging underneath sidewalks and there was about that much mud water in the bottom of the trench. Mhm. 22:43 22 minutes, 43 seconds And the guy looked up at me. He says, "When can you start?" I said, "We need somebody right now." And I said, "Where's your shovel?" Yeah. 22:49 22 minutes, 49 seconds And so he threw me a shovel and I jumped down and started working. Well, I so I worked there during the summer and I was going to school. Then I started working 22:56 22 minutes, 56 seconds for the uh some of the furniture stores there in Logan doing uh part time doing floor coverings. 23:05 23 minutes, 5 seconds Okay. 23:06 23 minutes, 6 seconds And uh I was doing a uh job one night uh in a new house on the way out of loading up and just started sardine Canyon and I 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds worked there on it. I picked up my stuff on the afternoon. I worked that afternoon all night all day. the next night. 23:23 23 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. 23:23 23 minutes, 23 seconds All day the next day. And uh anyway, I got through and took him back in and the guy he says, "What do you mean you're through?" He says, "Doctors don't make that much money." 23:33 23 minutes, 33 seconds And I said, "Well," I said, "Right through." And he said, "That's that's just not right. You're not you're not worth that." Well, yeah. Sure. Yeah. You're not worth that. 23:42 23 minutes, 42 seconds Okay. I'll show you. Yeah. I'll show you. Exactly. Right. 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds Yeah. So I kept in my mind and my brother came out of the home on the surface and he was looking for something to do and it was coming summertime. I 23:53 23 minutes, 53 seconds thought you know maybe ought to give it a shot. 23:55 23 minutes, 55 seconds Mhm. And uh so decided we'll come down and we kind of on a wing and a fair and we went into business started doing 24:04 24 minutes, 4 seconds basically labor on four calories and one thing led to another and entrepreneur this and entrepreneur that until pretty soon we're 24:12 24 minutes, 12 seconds we got more than we can do and here we are an old man later answering questions from you. Yeah. 24:19 24 minutes, 19 seconds So this was a business that you and your brother did together then? Basically, my mom uh she says, "I'll I'll help you." She said, "I'll I'll I'll work with you. 24:27 24 minutes, 27 seconds I'll take care of the inside of the store for one year." Okay. And I'm going to quit. Okay. 24:31 24 minutes, 31 seconds Now, 16 years later, she was still taking care of the inside. So, she was there for a while. Yeah. We worked the crap out of work. 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds So, it was really a family business then in a lot of ways. 24:40 24 minutes, 40 seconds It actually was. It actually we got involved. My dad was working down in Geneva and then he retired and he was 24:47 24 minutes, 47 seconds he would show up and trying to be a gopher, go get stuff for us. Sure. Sure. 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds One thing another and it uh so it was a good thing. Yeah. 24:55 24 minutes, 55 seconds Lehi was a uh it was a hard place to be in business. Sure. It was it wasn't like it is now. Sure. 25:01 25 minutes, 1 second And it uh uh in fact they they probably do as much uh business now construction 25:09 25 minutes, 9 seconds now in in a week than used to do 10 years. Sure. Sure. I mean it's just unreal. 25:14 25 minutes, 14 seconds Just Yeah. So many more. And did uh you know with that business that you created is it um did you pass that? Did any of your sons want to go into that business? 25:24 25 minutes, 24 seconds What what what happened to the business? 25:25 25 minutes, 25 seconds I guess they all did. They've all uh they're all college graduates. They've all that they worked on the side while he's going to school. 25:34 25 minutes, 34 seconds Uh one boy, he just retired as he was in administration at his school in in the district here. 25:42 25 minutes, 42 seconds Yeah. But for many years while he was a classroom teacher, he was doing uh uh four cabins for the district. Okay. 25:50 25 minutes, 50 seconds He had a contract with them for several years. I mean, he would work nights after school during the summers. Okay. 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds All this kind of stuff. And then the other boys, they've they've augmented their income by doing floors. Sure. 26:04 26 minutes, 4 seconds Uh you know, ceramic, they got in ceramic tile, floor tile, carpeting. Yeah. 26:08 26 minutes, 8 seconds That kind of stuff, you know. So it's there's been a lot of people actually we've trained over the years who went ahead and went on Yeah. 26:15 26 minutes, 15 seconds to do their own business in the same thing. Sure. 26:17 26 minutes, 17 seconds And it's so it was a good trade to learn. Yeah. 26:20 26 minutes, 20 seconds And it was it's a good and it's just we branched out into other things. I I got uh there's really no old uh floor mechanics. 26:31 26 minutes, 31 seconds Sure. Their knees wear out, their hips go out. Sure. 26:33 26 minutes, 33 seconds One thing. I thought maybe I better start doing something different. So we started cuz there's an expiration date on this, right? Yeah. 26:41 26 minutes, 41 seconds Yeah. Your body. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 26:44 26 minutes, 44 seconds And it and it uh and so we started messing around with buying a few rentals and that so that eventually we ended up 26:54 26 minutes, 54 seconds selling all of our main street properties and then put it into residential rentals and Mhm. 26:59 26 minutes, 59 seconds And even they're getting old now just like the rest of us. Sure. But it's it was a good transition. 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah. We knew how to take care of basically the inside of the house pretty well and we do our own our own repairs and own special especially floors. 27:13 27 minutes, 13 seconds Sure. Sure. Sure. 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds And so so then the transition obviously as a business owner entrepreneurial you know guy you went into politics then um 27:23 27 minutes, 23 seconds uh well China as a uh politics I I don't know I mean I guess true well go ahead. Yeah I'm kind of afraid of the word politician because it's got a bad name. 27:33 27 minutes, 33 seconds Sure. It does. Yeah. 27:34 27 minutes, 34 seconds And it uh and we've uh we've given it a bad name. Sure. By putting up with bad behavior. Sure. 27:41 27 minutes, 41 seconds And it uh I mean I'm talking primarily national behavior. Yeah. It's the Yeah. 27:47 27 minutes, 47 seconds And it uh locally I'm not throwing any rocks. I think there's been some serious errors made. Sure. 27:53 27 minutes, 53 seconds The great and spacious buildings one of them. Sure. Sure. I think that was a total miss ill time. Okay. Uh total Oh my gosh. 28:00 28 minutes Yeah. Uh it should have been put in transportation system. Sure. 28:04 28 minutes, 4 seconds Not not office building. They tore down perfectly good building because it was there when it was engineered and put together. I mean it was built I mean that building was a strong building. 28:14 28 minutes, 14 seconds They should totally tear it down. Yeah. 28:15 28 minutes, 15 seconds To build a new one in its place. It was it was awful. Sure. 28:18 28 minutes, 18 seconds But they used that money to to try to help the transportation system. They'd have done something. So I think they were wrong. Okay. But and they call me wrong. 28:27 28 minutes, 27 seconds Sure. 28:28 28 minutes, 28 seconds That's the way it goes in that that is politics, right? You obviously always have competing views and that's good. Yeah, 28:33 28 minutes, 33 seconds that's good. And it's uh but one thing about political stuff. Yeah. Uh political wise, friends come and go. 28:41 28 minutes, 41 seconds You get you get elected and you got you got all this swarm of people Sure. that come. Yeah. 28:46 28 minutes, 46 seconds But make an enemy politically. You never lose them. Yeah. Okay. And remember that into the eons of time, 28:54 28 minutes, 54 seconds they'll never forget a political wrong if if it affected them. 28:57 28 minutes, 57 seconds Sure. They just they they can't get it out of their it. Sure. It's hard to forgive on those things. Oh, it is. Yeah. 29:03 29 minutes, 3 seconds And I'm the same way. I won't ever forgive them about putting all the money in this great spacious building. 29:07 29 minutes, 7 seconds Sure. Sure. That that's Hey, I get it. I get it. Yeah. It could have been better spent. 29:12 29 minutes, 12 seconds It could have been better spent. Sure. I get that. Yeah. 29:15 29 minutes, 15 seconds So, and right right behind my house Yeah. There's a $19 million family park. Mhm. It's just like, are you kidding me? 29:23 29 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. I mean, little kids don't need $19 million playground. Sure. I mean, it's when I was a kid, I mean, 29:32 29 minutes, 32 seconds shooting marbles and skip the rope and swinging on swings. Sure. Very basic stuff, right? Basic stuff. Yeah. 29:39 29 minutes, 39 seconds I mean, that I think kids could uh could benefit from. Sure. 29:43 29 minutes, 43 seconds Rather than have ready made whippy here we go type stuff. Yeah. So, but that's opinions. 29:50 29 minutes, 50 seconds That's opinions. Exactly. And so, so talk to me about your time, you know, when you were when you were doing it. Chapter 8: Legacy & Community Contributions 29:55 29 minutes, 55 seconds What what are some of the things you're most proud of? Uh, you already mentioned one of the things you're you're, you know, not so proud of with with transportation and stuff like that. What are some of the things that you're, hey, 30:04 30 minutes, 4 seconds we did that or, you know, some of the things that you're proud of that happened or just took place? 30:09 30 minutes, 9 seconds Uh, what was the turning point for me was that we had a uh uh uh during the 30:16 30 minutes, 16 seconds winter time, we had a uh quite an active youth basketball league. Okay. 30:21 30 minutes, 21 seconds It was uh we were using uh the the armory to to play in the high school uh 30:28 30 minutes, 28 seconds every gymn we could appropriate from from uh for little leagues basketball winter sports. Sure. 30:36 30 minutes, 36 seconds Uh was there and and uh the high school team made it into the tournament every 30:42 30 minutes, 42 seconds one of those years and uh all of a sudden all those gymnasium were shut off. they needed to practice and all that kind of stuff. 30:51 30 minutes, 51 seconds Sure. 30:51 30 minutes, 51 seconds And the phone started ringing off the wall. I mean, it's all my fault. And like, hey, just a minute. 30:57 30 minutes, 57 seconds Something something that really does need to be changed here. Yeah. 31:01 31 minutes, 1 second There was a guy the name of uh Mike Hansen who would work worked his tail off for years and years and years serving the young people in town with their with 31:10 31 minutes, 10 seconds their sporting programs. One thing that on a shoestring. 31:14 31 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah. and his uh his uh real wish and desire was to have some type of a central place that he could work out of 31:22 31 minutes, 22 seconds and have a you know a sporting program for kids to do something. Yeah. 31:26 31 minutes, 26 seconds And uh uh I was walking out of the uh uh the north end of the uh office building at the time and thought, you know, 31:36 31 minutes, 36 seconds something has to be done. It's got to be done now. 31:39 31 minutes, 39 seconds Mhm. And uh I started talking to uh uh different contractors I knew about maybe stand up walls and all this kind of 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds stuff. And I uh there was a uh AR architecture in town. I can't remember his name. Uh Ed Collins came in and 31:55 31 minutes, 55 seconds said, "How serious are you about uh about a place for for your sporting program?" I said, "I'm totally serious." 32:02 32 minutes, 2 seconds He says, "You want to look at uh something that uh I can't think of his name, the architect And so we set up a meeting and he rolled out the plans. 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds It's basically the legacy center. Oh wow. 32:16 32 minutes, 16 seconds And it uh we were like, "Wow, this might be something." 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds And uh one thing led to another. We've we're really sure about how things would work out. So we done what we call a a 32:28 32 minutes, 28 seconds design build concept. We met every Monday morning. I went over what from the basic plan. what 32:35 32 minutes, 35 seconds can we do instead of putting out change orders that's that's expensive when contractors uh put together a bid 32:44 32 minutes, 44 seconds and a plan they hate to change because that screws up other things they've got planned and so we 32:52 32 minutes, 52 seconds uh and Richard Ellsworth uh he basically says I'll he said I'll do it as cheap as I can for you sure 32:59 32 minutes, 59 seconds and we'll work it we'll work it down that way so we did that and that's how the the the legacy center came to be born. Wow. 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds I'm I'm uh So, you played a role in that and and having that come to be. 33:11 33 minutes, 11 seconds Well, my name hangs on the wall in there and we put a uh a bust of uh Mike Hansen. 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds They keep moving it around. Sometimes they put it in the corner, sometimes they put it in the out in the closet. Sometimes they put it out front, you know. Yeah. 33:24 33 minutes, 24 seconds We try to honor him because his uh uh in fact, his wife, 33:29 33 minutes, 29 seconds they just just put him on this whole Walk of Fame thing they have. 33:32 33 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah. and she called and asked me about this uh story about Mike. Uh we were back in New York City trying to get the the funding for the Legacy Center. 33:43 33 minutes, 43 seconds Yeah. 33:44 33 minutes, 44 seconds And I kept uh telling the guys I was with uh uh I don't know why I'm here. I I don't know anything what I'm They 33:52 33 minutes, 52 seconds said, "Well, you're just here to try to tell them why we need this place or just trying to make him feel good about it." 33:58 33 minutes, 58 seconds Because basically it was to what rating we would get on the bonds. junk bond is a good bonder. Yeah. Affects the interest rate. Sure. 34:06 34 minutes, 6 seconds This affects the the end cost of the building. Sure. 34:09 34 minutes, 9 seconds And uh we were riding up the elevator at a very tall taller building. 34:15 34 minutes, 15 seconds Uh and I reached in my suit coat pocket and I pulled out and I had Mike's funeral program in my uh in my pocket. 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds I know what to say. 34:24 34 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah. And we got in and there's this big, you know, big oval table, all these suits sent around it and they expect me 34:32 34 minutes, 32 seconds to say something bright and intelligent and I just took that out and I just slid out on the table and I says, "Here's a man who devoted his life to the youth of Lehigh City." 34:41 34 minutes, 41 seconds Yeah. 34:41 34 minutes, 41 seconds We want to make this dream come true by by providing a a central point of of interest and and opportunity for the youth of our city. 34:51 34 minutes, 51 seconds Yeah. We've gone through uh public hearings. We haven't had one, not one descending vote from either the elected officials or 34:59 34 minutes, 59 seconds from the town's people. Everybody thought it was a good idea. Yeah. 35:02 35 minutes, 2 seconds And uh when we got through walking down and going out and uh John, somebody 35:09 35 minutes, 9 seconds John, a guy that was uh you have to forgive me, but not as sharp as he used to be. I understand. Name was John. 35:16 35 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. As we was go as we was walking out of the elevator, he said, "Well, 35:18 35 minutes, 18 seconds Greenwood says you just saved your city a lot of money today and we got a very very favorable rating on our bonds." It's great. 35:26 35 minutes, 26 seconds And so it uh it saved the citizens, I think, a lot of money. Yeah. I'm happy for that. Yeah. 35:31 35 minutes, 31 seconds I'm happy for my camps and I'm happy for the for the kids because they it's such a multi-use building. 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds It is. They can be doing uh they can be doing gymnastics. They can be doing basketball. They can be doing and people be running around the track upstairs. 35:46 35 minutes, 46 seconds Yeah. I was there this morning. You were this morning. Good for you. Yeah. 35:50 35 minutes, 50 seconds We had a uh we bought a uh uh a portable stage. Mhm. 35:56 35 minutes, 56 seconds Uh kind of a big big house trailer. You could open up. Sure. 36:01 36 minutes, 1 second And make a stage on it. And uh, oh, I wish we'd have made that so we could 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds back that stage into one of those those uh gymnasiums in the Legacy Center and have a portable stage for m for music 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds and that type of stuff if want to have a band. Yeah. 36:19 36 minutes, 19 seconds And uh and uh so we talked to the architect and uh he said, "I think we can do it." He said, "I don't know about 36:27 36 minutes, 27 seconds the height. We really can't. Uh we're really really close." 36:30 36 minutes, 30 seconds Sure. And uh I said, "If we're really close, we'll take the damn air out of the tire. We'll get it down." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 36:36 36 minutes, 36 seconds And so I went and measured it and I knew it had fit. Yeah. By 3/4 of an inch. Oh wow. So barely. It doesn't matter. Yeah. 36:43 36 minutes, 43 seconds If it's 3/4 of an inch or an inch or a foot and a half, whatever it is, as long as it goes through. Yeah. It's good. Goes through. Yeah. The thing I didn't pay attention to, 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds could you back it in and open up in the right side? Sure. Pure luck. Oh, wow. 36:57 36 minutes, 57 seconds Back it in. Opened up. And there's the gymnasium right there. 36:59 36 minutes, 59 seconds Sure. Sure. So that's sometimes better be lucky than good. It's that is true. That is good. So anyway, 37:08 37 minutes, 8 seconds but so so Legacy Center. Well, thank you for the Legacy Center. Thanks for making that happen. Chapter 9: The Legacy Center & Senior Perks 37:14 37 minutes, 14 seconds Lehi, they it was just it was just uh I do take credit for kind of hey, something's got to be done here. 37:22 37 minutes, 22 seconds Sure. Yeah. Yeah. 37:23 37 minutes, 23 seconds And was it hard to get past? I mean, you know, from a financial standpoint, was there a vote that you know that? No. No. No. Um, 37:30 37 minutes, 30 seconds actually, uh, the citizens had turned down a, uh, a general obligation bond, okay, 37:36 37 minutes, 36 seconds for a, uh, basically a performing arts center. Okay. And the citizens have turned it down. And we thought, well, just a minute, 37:43 37 minutes, 43 seconds maybe we'll put in a, uh, we'll have we'll we'll try to we'll vote in with the council. Mhm. A revenue bond. 37:52 37 minutes, 52 seconds Mhm. 37:52 37 minutes, 52 seconds And so that's why you have a a lunch counter in there. 37:55 37 minutes, 55 seconds Okay. That's why when you go uh when I go walking around there Yeah. If I don't buy a pass, uh we uh uh for the citizens, seniors that I'm part of now. 38:06 38 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah. 38:06 38 minutes, 6 seconds We can go from uh we thought, well, if we're going to have a senior citizen component be there. Yeah. 38:13 38 minutes, 13 seconds Why don't we uh let the senior citizens come in from uh 9:00 in the morning till 2 o'clock in the afternoon and walk 38:21 38 minutes, 21 seconds for free? And we put exercise stuff in some corners. Yeah. 38:25 38 minutes, 25 seconds So they wouldn't have to pay. They could do it for free. Oh wow. 38:28 38 minutes, 28 seconds If they want to come during those times when the place wasn't busy. Yeah. 38:32 38 minutes, 32 seconds And uh Oh. So that's why those are in the corners. I've always wondered that like what you know cuz we I just figured they had didn't have enough equipment or you know enough space for it. 38:39 38 minutes, 39 seconds They're there because they're there because basically from 9 until 2 the uh seniors could go exercise without for 38:47 38 minutes, 47 seconds those some of them were fixed on fixed incomes. 38:49 38 minutes, 49 seconds Sure. Sure. And uh and they all got dinged for uh uh to pay for it. Sure. If 38:57 38 minutes, 57 seconds they own property in town, they paid for it, too. Sure. Sure. And it was like uh but uh so I thought, 39:03 39 minutes, 3 seconds well, maybe there ought to be a perk for last long enough and that uh we'll make it so they can come. But the biggest thing was if they come early to walk, 39:11 39 minutes, 11 seconds maybe they'll stay for dinner. Or if they stay if they come to dinner, 39:14 39 minutes, 14 seconds maybe they'll stay and exercise after dinner. 39:17 39 minutes, 17 seconds Okay. That was the thought process that Sure. that went into that. Sure. 39:21 39 minutes, 21 seconds And it uh and it I came home from uh my wife and I went on a mission to East Africa. I told you that already, I think. Yeah. 39:29 39 minutes, 29 seconds And uh we got back and the time was actually 10 to two. Okay. 39:34 39 minutes, 34 seconds And my boy owned the uh assisted living center right across the street north of it. 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds Yep. And we got back and I was helping him with maintenance on his place and I thought, man, I need to go down at 9:00. 39:48 39 minutes, 48 seconds Uh maybe I'll just start going over and walk at 9 instead of waiting till 10:00. Sure. 39:53 39 minutes, 53 seconds And so I asked Dan Harrison the uh uh would it be possible I just come and walked at 9:00 instead of 10? 40:02 40 minutes, 2 seconds Well, no. He says, "We can't do that." 40:03 40 minutes, 3 seconds He says, "Those these things are put together for a reason." And he says, "We we have to stay with that." I thought, 40:10 40 minutes, 10 seconds "Dan, I hired you, you dumbass. I hired you." Yeah. Let's talk about this. Yeah. Yeah. 40:17 40 minutes, 17 seconds But so I didn't fight with him with him. Never mind. Sure. I'll come. But uh but but we Oh, the 40:25 40 minutes, 25 seconds reason we had to go at 9:00. I want to come at 8. Uh Paul and Doris Peterson. Mhm. 40:30 40 minutes, 30 seconds They was like, "Why can't we come at 9:00 instead of having to wait until 10?" Sure. 40:35 40 minutes, 35 seconds And then uh that's what I got. I'm getting mixed up here a little bit. And so I said, "Well, I don't care." Yeah. Come at 9:00. It makes no difference. 40:43 40 minutes, 43 seconds Yeah. 40:44 40 minutes, 44 seconds And so when I asked Dan if we could come at 8 instead of nine, he was like, "No, we got we got reasons." Yeah. We got reasons. There was no reason. 40:51 40 minutes, 51 seconds Yeah. We just That was a random number. 40:53 40 minutes, 53 seconds That's what happens. That's I guess that's one of my pet peeves about people and rules. Sure. 40:59 40 minutes, 59 seconds Rules become more important than the reason why they have the rule. And a lot of times the people that did those first rules, it was just a random. It wasn't 41:06 41 minutes, 6 seconds there wasn't a lot of thought put into it. It was just let's do this, you know. 41:10 41 minutes, 10 seconds Well, exactly. It seemed like a good idea. Sure. Yeah. 41:13 41 minutes, 13 seconds There wasn't any two and two plus, you know, take away 10, all type of stuff. It was complicated at all. Yeah. Yeah. 41:20 41 minutes, 20 seconds It was just kind of a common sense thing. Yeah. 41:23 41 minutes, 23 seconds That's good ad. I mean, because so focus on like, hey, why are we doing this? I think sometimes those traditions get passed down and it's like, well, okay, 41:29 41 minutes, 29 seconds let's look at this. Is this the best way? Can we fix this? Can we change this? Right? Because sometimes it's just tradition. 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds And sometimes if they're not broke, don't fix the dog thing. Leave it alone. Sure. Sure. You don't have to change it. Yeah. 41:43 41 minutes, 43 seconds I mean, if it's working, stay out of the way. Yeah. 41:45 41 minutes, 45 seconds So, anyway, so it's uh so I got another question. 41:50 41 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. Well, so so uh anything else from your time as as being mayor? anything else uh you know that you that you uh learned about the inner workings of how 41:58 41 minutes, 58 seconds city you know cities work and stuff like that uh things that you didn't know before I don't know any anything else from your time as mayor I guess Chapter 10: Costco & City Council Negotiations 42:06 42 minutes, 6 seconds when we were trying to get Costco here in town okay uh Costco and Lowe's and that we had made a boundary line agreement 42:14 42 minutes, 14 seconds with American for worked on for years and years and years nobody could ever come to an agreement I was like my gosh who cares we're American for being where Lehi starts Yeah. 42:23 42 minutes, 23 seconds And it's so we made that and then Costco wanted to come in. We needed to have access off a piece of property that was in actually in American Fork now. 42:31 42 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah. And it was uh so we were we were uh uh oh it was a it was a bad deal trying to 42:40 42 minutes, 40 seconds get through the councils one thing and another because they just people disagreeing. Yeah. 42:44 42 minutes, 44 seconds Somebody going to get a store and we're not going to have it. All that kind of just clutchy mind type of stuff. 42:50 42 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. And uh I called Mayor Barrett at the time. I said, "My hell, Ted, can't we get this thing straightened out?" 42:58 42 minutes, 58 seconds This has been going on for months. Yeah. 43:00 43 minutes And I went over to him and within within 15 minutes, we had it all squared away. Really? 43:05 43 minutes, 5 seconds And he took his Calvin. I took my Calvin and done and it just just went on through and it uh so there's uh you can do things if 43:14 43 minutes, 14 seconds you work together. other things. I I had a secretary who was uh uh I'm not going Chapter 11: Facing False Accusations 43:22 43 minutes, 22 seconds to name any names. I don't want any problems, but she got mad at me. Mhm. 43:26 43 minutes, 26 seconds And then she started telling tales, just goes back to the enemy thing. Mhm. 43:30 43 minutes, 30 seconds Uh she started telling people how much money I'd made because Micron and uh and uh they created a new 43:39 43 minutes, 39 seconds company called some MD Flash or something. Oh, IM Flash. IM Flash. Yeah. 43:44 43 minutes, 44 seconds IM flash went along with Intel Micron Intel and they formed a new company. Yeah. And they started working right up here. Mhm. 43:51 43 minutes, 51 seconds And she started telling people that made millions of dollars by being People believe it. You can't fight that. Yeah. 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds You can't. And as these tales as they roll forward, you just the more you try to defend it, the worse it becomes. So 44:05 44 minutes, 5 seconds you just have to learn to shut your mouth. 44:07 44 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. And it uh and I uh even though you didn't you didn't make millions off of it. Well, I went in I 44:14 44 minutes, 14 seconds went into the uh in fact Mayor Johnson is the one that actually, you know, 44:20 44 minutes, 20 seconds revealed it to me and I just kept my mouth shut and then one day I went in my uh uh my sister had died 44:29 44 minutes, 29 seconds and I went in to get the the grave stuff squared away and we had the the office for the 44:36 44 minutes, 36 seconds cemetery there in the high office building and uh I was walking out I thought you Well, I'm just going to get 44:44 44 minutes, 44 seconds it off the chest. So, I went back to her office and I and I called her by name. I said, you know, I said, I just want you to know that I never did do that. 44:52 44 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah. 44:52 44 minutes, 52 seconds And you know, then I would never say anything like that about you. 44:56 44 minutes, 56 seconds I Well, actually, you did. I know you did. Yeah. 44:59 44 minutes, 59 seconds And she started crying and balling and stuff. And I and I uh and I uh Well, I 45:07 45 minutes, 7 seconds says I said, "I'm sorry." I said, "But but I know you did it." And I said, "You can cry all you want." And I said, 45:12 45 minutes, 12 seconds "Well, that I said, 'W watching I forgive you." 45:14 45 minutes, 14 seconds I said, "Whatever it is, whatever caused you to do it." And uh and so I walked out and and I tried calling Mark at his 45:24 45 minutes, 24 seconds office and he didn't pick up. He worked for an engineering company in Orum. And then uh uh he called me back a couple 45:31 45 minutes, 31 seconds hours later. I picked up the phone. He was laughing and he says, "She had me on the phone before he got down the front steps Greenwood. She was cheering on his butt for because she had told him. 45:41 45 minutes, 41 seconds Yeah. And he's the one that told me. 45:43 45 minutes, 43 seconds Gotcha. So that's Yeah. She knew how it got back to her. 45:46 45 minutes, 46 seconds I knew how it got back and she was so mad at him calling him. But when when when the natural man is uh carnal, 45:55 45 minutes, 55 seconds sensual, and devilish. Sure. And I believe that. Sure. You and me both. Yeah. Of course. We all got we all got that within us. 46:02 46 minutes, 2 seconds And yeah, 46:02 46 minutes, 2 seconds who knows when it gets for whatever reason you be pushed abundant pops it ugly head. 46:07 46 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. And it uh so I I give people credit there. Sometimes for whatever reason they got their toe stepped off. Yeah. 46:14 46 minutes, 14 seconds But uh I'm still unforgiven. I haven't forgotten it yet. Sure. Sure. Sure. I don't care. I don't care anymore. Yeah. You don't care anymore. Yeah. 46:22 46 minutes, 22 seconds That's good. Do do you you know you mentioned uh some of the previous mayors and stuff like that uh you know that have served after you. Uh I think I've Chapter 12: Reflections on Public Service 46:29 46 minutes, 29 seconds heard sometimes you guys go to lunch and you know is there is there is there a bond that takes place between mayors? um you know some kind of you know you know 46:38 46 minutes, 38 seconds that uh shared uh experience that you've had. 46:42 46 minutes, 42 seconds There's uh I've never felt close to them cuz I felt like they were uh uh they've badmouththed me in some pretty good ways. 46:51 46 minutes, 51 seconds Sure. Uh it's only been about two years ago. Crap. I haven't been there for 20 years. Sure. 46:57 46 minutes, 57 seconds You know, right? And uh in fact only been two years ago said they're going to badmouth you uh tonight at city council meeting. 47:05 47 minutes, 5 seconds So I went down and and uh the mayor and the city council and s there and I said well everything that uh greener did he 47:13 47 minutes, 13 seconds did on the cheap and uh and then the city attorney said well every every legal document he signed was has no 47:21 47 minutes, 21 seconds legal consequence. They're talking about the the soccer field up above town now. 47:27 47 minutes, 27 seconds And it's just like my hell, guys. Get over it. Sure. You know, just just just forget it. 47:34 47 minutes, 34 seconds And it's uh there no need to throw rocks I can run against you ever again. Yeah. 47:38 47 minutes, 38 seconds And it's so to say we're close. Nah. I mean, I don't I'm not mad at him. Sure. I just don't have any use for them. Sure. 47:45 47 minutes, 45 seconds And it uh I don't want to go to I don't want to go to lunch. We went to lunch here uh I don't know a year ago or so 47:51 47 minutes, 51 seconds with Bert and Sure. Mark and and I think uh uh oh uh Ron Smith. Okay. 47:59 47 minutes, 59 seconds And uh and here's just been a few months ago. I read in the Lehi Ledger. Here it is about this good old boy thing in town. 48:07 48 minutes, 7 seconds Mhm. 48:08 48 minutes, 8 seconds About about Greenwood when he got elected mayor. See the good old boy uh uh apparatus in town. The thing they 48:16 48 minutes, 16 seconds forgot, I signed the damn legislation to change it and they were throwing rocks at me even then. Wow. It's only been a few months ago. Sure. 48:24 48 minutes, 24 seconds And I don't know who's on the council now. Uh I apologize again for names, but uh friend of mine called him and said I 48:33 48 minutes, 33 seconds was kind of he called me and said I'm I'm so sorry. Sure. 48:35 48 minutes, 35 seconds He said I didn't uh that came from one of the ex-orsers. Sure. 48:39 48 minutes, 39 seconds You know, saying that that I the only reason I got in is through the from the good old boy standpoint. Sure. Actually, I like the good old boy standpoint. 48:47 48 minutes, 47 seconds Sure. But I'm the one that put the kitewash on it. Yeah. You stopped it. Yeah. 48:50 48 minutes, 50 seconds Because they I only ran for mayor. In fact, there's another story. I was going to run for mayor and Francis Kumer, she was a councilman. 48:59 48 minutes, 59 seconds Mhm. 48:59 48 minutes, 59 seconds And she called me and forbid me to run for mayor. 49:02 49 minutes, 2 seconds And I had just got through talking to the center guy. He was going to run for mayor. He was on the council. 49:08 49 minutes, 8 seconds He called me and says if I was going to run, I said, "Well, if you're going to run for mayor, I'll just run for council. No big deal." 49:13 49 minutes, 13 seconds Sure. I had no more than hung up the phone and Francis called and forbid me to run for mayor. Oh wow. 49:19 49 minutes, 19 seconds So I on the phone I still read that my wife and I says I guess I have to run for mayor cuz he told me not to. It was her. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. 49:28 49 minutes, 28 seconds Well, she hated my cats and then I told her I said one time friends I said you and I are going to become best friends before this is all over. She says no we 49:36 49 minutes, 36 seconds won't. And I actually got to talk at her funeral from Africa. Oh wow. 49:40 49 minutes, 40 seconds And it was pretty cool. And it uh so it's uh uh and I should be a little bit softer in some of my uh uh I'm not mad at anybody. 49:50 49 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. 49:50 49 minutes, 50 seconds I just uh it's hard to get over things when when people uh when to bear false witness. Sure. That's a hard one to get over. 49:58 49 minutes, 58 seconds It is a hard one. It It's hard. Yeah. 50:00 50 minutes If it was the truth. Hell, I'd admit to it. Sure. I mean, I really would. Yeah. No. Hey, I mean, but it's a a false witness. 50:08 50 minutes, 8 seconds There's a reason why that's put in the 10. Yeah. I mean, it's a biggie. It is a hard one. Yeah. Yeah. 50:13 50 minutes, 13 seconds And I'm guessing that's maybe one of the things that people don't always realize that comes with being in a public office because you're you're you know, the 50:20 50 minutes, 20 seconds spotlight's on you and and if you if you you know have an opinion this way and people don't like that, they got to tear you down, I guess, sometimes, right? You know, 50:29 50 minutes, 29 seconds for some way that's maybe it's always been that way, but it uh but it's someone who does says things out of ignorance. Yeah. 50:36 50 minutes, 36 seconds I I don't have any I don't have anything. People just don't know. Sure. They don't know. Sure. Yeah. 50:41 50 minutes, 41 seconds In fact, I told him in council meeting one night. I don't I forget what the whole thing was about. And I and I I said I'm not sure who it was. I said Mark Twain, I think it was. He says, 50:51 50 minutes, 51 seconds "We're all ignorant just about different things." Sure. 50:54 50 minutes, 54 seconds And I told that to the audience out there. 50:57 50 minutes, 57 seconds And then after uh after meeting some woman, she was sobbing. I mean, she was just shaking, sobbing, you know, real tears coming out. Like real. Yeah. Sure. 51:04 51 minutes, 4 seconds I said, "Ma'am," I said, "What is the matter?" 51:07 51 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. And she was she want she's trying to talk to me and and and she just she couldn't get it out finally. She says you called me ignorant, you know. 51:15 51 minutes, 15 seconds Oh, 51:16 51 minutes, 16 seconds I didn't call you. I said we call them we're all ignorant. Sure. Just about different things. 51:20 51 minutes, 20 seconds Yeah. I included myself in that group is what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. 51:22 51 minutes, 22 seconds I mean it's just we're only ignorant until we know it and then we're not ignorant anymore about that thing. Sure. Sure. 51:28 51 minutes, 28 seconds And so it's just I'm starting to get personal about stuff. I don't think it's what you want to know. Yeah. No, this is good. This is good. 51:33 51 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah. You're good. It it Well, I appreciate I mean, it's really just to get to know you and and I think this has been good and I, you know, um it's good 51:41 51 minutes, 41 seconds to, you know, hear some of the things that you did. Obviously, you know, I I I love Costco and I love the Legacy Center. So, thank you for both of those things. 51:48 51 minutes, 48 seconds We had a you know, 51:50 51 minutes, 50 seconds Costco would not come if they didn't have a little hook ramp coming out on the 89. 51:55 51 minutes, 55 seconds Okay. and we talked to uh he was region three uh Utah director and he had an emergency meeting that down here in in 52:03 52 minutes, 3 seconds uh Utah County and uh was going to meet with the uh with the tracks uh I can't think of his 52:12 52 minutes, 12 seconds name the railroad people he says when you meet with those people and he was there to this meeting 52:18 52 minutes, 18 seconds he says do not meet with him alone he says make sure that I'm there and he says you tell me what it is and he says, "I'll be there." 52:26 52 minutes, 26 seconds Mhm. And so I called him up and uh told him, 52:30 52 minutes, 30 seconds "We're going to meet at such and such time." He says, "I'll be there." And so I drove up with the guys from Costco. Mhm. 52:37 52 minutes, 37 seconds And we had it all, it was all put together because they had to adjust the the rightway along the railroad track to get that little hook ramp coming out on the south side there. 52:45 52 minutes, 45 seconds Yeah. And uh uh uh we walked in, we got 52:51 52 minutes, 51 seconds in there and uh this uh Mike, apologize again for names, but uh he denied that we had that that uh that agreement. 53:03 53 minutes, 3 seconds Oh. And this the guy knew stood up say, "No, 53:05 53 minutes, 5 seconds no, no, no, Mike." I think his name first name is Mike. No, no, no, Mike. He says reminded him. And anyway, we got we got it all approved. 53:14 53 minutes, 14 seconds It was all approved. He was walking out down the hallway and the guy guy guy guy 53:18 53 minutes, 18 seconds guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy 53:18 53 minutes, 18 seconds guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy from Costco ran around in front of me and got down in front bowed down like he worship in a booty and says you must be God only 53:26 53 minutes, 26 seconds could get that could have got that approved oh wow it wasn't God sure no it was just having people were being honest yeah 53:34 53 minutes, 34 seconds stood up for agreements instead of agreeing stuff and then going back on it go back on it type of thing sure 53:41 53 minutes, 41 seconds that's probably the I had that happen when I was mayor with with the school district at the at the high school. Yeah. 53:48 53 minutes, 48 seconds Trying to move fences to try to try to get because it was a dangerous situation with school buses parking there, kids darting out, traffic going by and that you know. 53:57 53 minutes, 57 seconds Is that the high school at Lehigh High School? Yeah. Okay. Over here. 54:01 54 minutes, 1 second And it uh uh when he was going to build on the high school, I went I met with them and uh and I told him I says, 54:09 54 minutes, 9 seconds "What's your guys?" I says went over met in the uh in the uh uh and I went up to 54:18 54 minutes, 18 seconds the the junior high and I counted the cars. There were 13 cars parked at the junior high. Mhm. 54:23 54 minutes, 23 seconds I came down to the high school and I says there's like I forget how many cars went illegally parked down to high school. I said you don't have enough room. Yeah. 54:30 54 minutes, 30 seconds I said why don't we uh uh turn that into a middle school or do something and and build a high school where just your shorts are too tight. 54:39 54 minutes, 39 seconds You don't have enough room to get in the shorts. Sure. Sure. Get too big a butt. Yeah, sure. Sure. 54:44 54 minutes, 44 seconds Just I mean, we'll we can develop as a as a as a business business area. Uh you'll have money to buy the property and expand it out. 54:52 54 minutes, 52 seconds And uh and so the uh uh this guy from Pleasant Grove attracted him. He said, 54:59 54 minutes, 59 seconds "You guys made you think if you if you yell loud enough long enough, you can get anything you want." Mhm. 55:04 55 minutes, 4 seconds And uh Okay. So I went on and they were building on the junior high and they were building onto the high school. 55:12 55 minutes, 12 seconds They wouldn't give us the plans. The city's supposed to have the plans. Sure. 55:16 55 minutes, 16 seconds For emergency, whatever it is, when construction, when it's built, whatever, the city's supposed to have those plans. I mean, that big around that tall. 55:24 55 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah. 55:25 55 minutes, 25 seconds Rolls of plans. And so I told uh Ted Carter, he was a chief building inspector. I said, "Go get the go shut them down. Go red tag them. Mhm. 55:34 55 minutes, 34 seconds If you can't get, they won't give you the plans. Just red tag it. Sure. He came in my office and he said, "Okay." He says, "I'm" He's on my way. 55:41 55 minutes, 41 seconds Said, "But I'm not going alone. You got to come with me." So, we went. Sure. And we red tagged both sides. Mhm. 55:48 55 minutes, 48 seconds And uh that same guy uh we said, "I can remember his name. Maybe it's good. I can't." Was they wouldn't put me on the 55:56 55 minutes, 56 seconds on the agenda to to talk to the school board. Mhm. 56:00 56 minutes And so I stood up during the public input time. I was going to stand during the public input time and I was over there before the meeting started and I 56:07 56 minutes, 7 seconds stand in front. He walked up to me and he started poking me in the chest. I told him I says, "Don't poke me in the chest one more time." 56:16 56 minutes, 16 seconds Yeah. 56:17 56 minutes, 17 seconds What will be nothing but and elbows right in front of everybody? Yeah. So, poke me one more time. Yeah. He didn't poke me another time. I'm sure he didn't. 56:25 56 minutes, 25 seconds I kind of wished he had. Sure. I was a lot younger then. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I was hoping he would. Sure. Sure. Because I wanted him. I wanted him. 56:33 56 minutes, 33 seconds You were ready to go. Yeah. Yeah. 56:35 56 minutes, 35 seconds But it's uh here we are now with high school with they sell 800 permits and they got 500 parking spots. Yeah. 56:43 56 minutes, 43 seconds They tore down they took out the tennis courts that needed them for other stuff. 56:46 56 minutes, 46 seconds It's just it was you could see it coming from a mile away, but Yep. 56:50 56 minutes, 50 seconds It's hard to tell other people what to do. Sure. Sure. With with my tax money. Sure. Sure. Yep. It is. It is. 56:58 56 minutes, 58 seconds And a lot of these problems take time to fix, too. They're not there's not an easy solution for that problem right now. Uh quickly at least, you know, 57:06 57 minutes, 6 seconds it cost more to just to buy the property now than they got. It's old school. Yeah. I mean, and there no property left. Yeah. There's no Yeah. 57:12 57 minutes, 12 seconds So far as big acreages, one thing it's hard to find. Yeah. 57:16 57 minutes, 16 seconds And it uh and those that are is multiple multi-unit. Yeah. Yeah. So, but anyway, Chapter 13: Mission Work in East Africa 57:23 57 minutes, 23 seconds talk to me, you know, like um obviously you you know, you went on this mission and stuff like that. Talk to me a little bit more about the mission. What did you do on the mission there in East Africa? 57:33 57 minutes, 33 seconds We started off being a church education system, CES mission. Okay. 57:39 57 minutes, 39 seconds And we ended up uh we were in uh we were sent down the coast of Tanzania. Okay. 57:44 57 minutes, 44 seconds And uh the uh we ended up being uh the other senior couple there. Uh they had 57:51 57 minutes, 51 seconds to come home and so it just my wife and I and we had six young missionaries down there. 57:56 57 minutes, 56 seconds Okay. And so we we basically got to do it all for for about half our mission. Okay. 58:02 58 minutes, 2 seconds It was a uh I mean I was I'm not really computer oriented. I can tell you are. Sure. 58:08 58 minutes, 8 seconds And so I was trying to not I kept me I kept me a room drawer full of cash. If I was short I added money. 58:15 58 minutes, 15 seconds Just add if I was long I took some out and put it in the drawer. That works. Stuff like that. Sure. Sure. I mean I I just made it work. 58:22 58 minutes, 22 seconds Sure. I I told I told the uh mission pen I said I said I'll do the best I can. I said it's not going to be all that good but I'll do it. 58:31 58 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah. 58:31 58 minutes, 31 seconds And so the time you got another one there we've been there for quite a while. 58:35 58 minutes, 35 seconds So we got the taste of all and it was uh it was it was it was really a neat experience. Sure. Good. So good. 58:43 58 minutes, 43 seconds And it uh but it uh you want any more personal stories or Sure. Yeah. Let's hear it. Yeah. Go ahead. 58:49 58 minutes, 49 seconds They uh was getting ready to go in uh the 1st of January. Was supposed to the MTC on the 7th of March. 58:57 58 minutes, 57 seconds Okay. 58:58 58 minutes, 58 seconds And uh on the 3rd of March, phone rings and somebody old Elder Greenwood. Yeah. 59:04 59 minutes, 4 seconds Stones holding church missionary depart said, "We'll have you uh report to the MTC on the 7th of June instead of the 59:11 59 minutes, 11 seconds 7th of March." And I said, "Well, that's great." I said, "But uh" I says, "I won't be there. You have to get someone else." I said I spent uh three weeks 59:20 59 minutes, 20 seconds arranging my business affairs and someone to take care of my house. I have a granddaughter. They had they were going to move in. Yeah. And live there while we were gone. 59:29 59 minutes, 29 seconds They'd give up their place. And Sure. Sure. You had a plan. 59:31 59 minutes, 31 seconds So I said, "Well, if uh uh if we don't go on 7th March, just just forget it. We'll we won't be gone." And they said, 59:39 59 minutes, 39 seconds "Well, we'll can I call you back?" I said, "Yeah, sure. We come back in about 10 minutes." Said, "We'll have you reported 7th of March." And so it's just 59:47 59 minutes, 47 seconds there's there's and I've learned a little bit uh uh when you're in a position of authority, you really need to treat people as people. 59:57 59 minutes, 57 seconds Mhm. 59:57 59 minutes, 57 seconds Not as pieces of on the chest board or something to move them around at will. Yeah. 1:00:03 1 hour, 3 seconds Because they've got their lives that they're living and it's a whether they're getting paid or or if they're getting paid, I guess that's a different 1:00:10 1 hour, 10 seconds story. But we're primarily volunteer Yeah. 1:00:13 1 hour, 13 seconds type of thing. Better pay attention to their not just a move for convenience sake type of thing. 1:00:19 1 hour, 19 seconds And uh we had a uh they changed the the mission to an English speaking mission just where we got there and just after we let the change it back to a Swahili speaking mission, 1:00:30 1 hour, 30 seconds but there was this young lady there. She dearly wanted to go on a mission. And uh and President Barger, he was uh he took 1:00:40 1 hour, 40 seconds us out to dinner one night and uh every six weeks he'd come 600 miles down the coast and go to dinner, hold, you know, 1:00:48 1 hour, 48 seconds meetings with the with this and that, but we sat at dinner. And I said, 1:00:52 1 hour, 52 seconds "President," he says, "I can't stand and recite DNC4 with you anymore." 1:00:56 1 hour, 56 seconds He said, "Well, why is that?" And I said, "Well, I'm going to recite the whole thing, but it says in there, if you have a desire for the work, it qualifies you for the work." Mhm. 1:01:03 1 hour, 1 minute, 3 seconds I said, "You're not calling Anna on a mission." And I says, "And she really wants to go, so she has a desire." And I say, "You're not following your own your own script." Sure. Yeah. 1:01:12 1 hour, 1 minute, 12 seconds And he said, he just went quiet. He came he came back the next six weeks. He said, "All right, agreement." He said, 1:01:19 1 hour, 1 minute, 19 seconds "I'll call her on a mission. I'll call her to my mission so I won't be sending a problem to someone else's mission. I don't care. She wants to go on a mission. She didn't care which one. 1:01:29 1 hour, 1 minute, 29 seconds Yeah. 1:01:29 1 hour, 1 minute, 29 seconds And uh so he said, "Okay, go ahead and get her papers ready." So the next day went over to little branch and was filling them out. We say, "Okay, you 1:01:38 1 hour, 1 minute, 38 seconds know, here she was just like she couldn't read what we was trying to have her read." She sign and my wife had a pair of these glasses you buy at the at 1:01:46 1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds the drugstore that kind of magnify scene a little bit. Yeah. 1:01:50 1 hour, 1 minute, 50 seconds Here. Try. She put them out. She could write sign. She couldn't see. Oh. Oh. She couldn't see. So she Oh jeez. 1:01:56 1 hour, 1 minute, 56 seconds So we took her down and and she needed prescriment glasses. 1:02:00 1 hour, 2 minutes Got her some new glasses. She served a successful mission to South Africa. 1:02:05 1 hour, 2 minutes, 5 seconds They got too dangerous down there for lady missionaries. So they withdrew the lady missionaries out of South Africa. Yeah. 1:02:11 1 hour, 2 minutes, 11 seconds And dog they didn't send her back to the Kenya Nairobi mission and her her plane was landing coming in and his plane was land taken off going out. 1:02:20 1 hour, 2 minutes, 20 seconds Wow. 1:02:21 1 hour, 2 minutes, 21 seconds So she did serve in his mission but he wasn't but he was gone. So, it's funny how things work out. 1:02:25 1 hour, 2 minutes, 25 seconds That is funny. No, I love that. That's a great story. 1:02:27 1 hour, 2 minutes, 27 seconds That is good. So, I I recognize the hand of God in a lot of things and and I and I and I believe in God. I I believe in in what I do and what I've did. 1:02:36 1 hour, 2 minutes, 36 seconds Yeah. 1:02:36 1 hour, 2 minutes, 36 seconds And I'm grateful for it all. I I mean, I don't have any regrets what I did or even what I didn't do as mayor. I've done the best I could. Sure. 1:02:43 1 hour, 2 minutes, 43 seconds And it uh made a lot of friends and made a few enemies. Probably more than I know, but Sure. 1:02:48 1 hour, 2 minutes, 48 seconds But but most people have forgotten about it now. Yeah. It doesn't matter anymore. So, in fact, I got to meet you. Yeah. No, that's right. That's right. 1:02:56 1 hour, 2 minutes, 56 seconds So, 1:02:57 1 hour, 2 minutes, 57 seconds well, you know, kind of as we conclude here then, I guess, you know, um you know, just thinking back on your life, I mean, obviously you you've you've had a good life, you know, and and hopefully we'll have many more years, you know, Chapter 14: Legacy & Community Impact 1:03:06 1 hour, 3 minutes, 6 seconds but 86 is enough, right? 1:03:09 1 hour, 3 minutes, 9 seconds But as you look back on your life, uh you know, what what what do you want most to be, you know, be your legacy or, 1:03:16 1 hour, 3 minutes, 16 seconds you know, the thing that people remember both both in the community and obviously in your family and different things? But uh talk to me about that. 1:03:23 1 hour, 3 minutes, 23 seconds Oh, my my in my own family life. I'm I'm so grateful for a uh a loving uh uh uh 1:03:31 1 hour, 3 minutes, 31 seconds God's important in her life and God's important in my life. I'm I'm grateful for that. 1:03:36 1 hour, 3 minutes, 36 seconds We've got five kids who are who are so far none of them in jail. I mean, and they I don't think they beat up on their 1:03:43 1 hour, 3 minutes, 43 seconds kids or their wives. I mean I mean or their husband, whatever. 1:03:46 1 hour, 3 minutes, 46 seconds Yeah. And it uh uh if I was to pick one single thing out personal wise would be my family. I mean that's there's that's that's the top spot for me. 1:03:55 1 hour, 3 minutes, 55 seconds Top spot. Sure. 1:03:56 1 hour, 3 minutes, 56 seconds I mean that's and there's no question about that. So communitywise I'm uh I got a lot of friends we made and and I had a good time. 1:04:06 1 hour, 4 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah. I mean, I just I went to so many meetings and I hate meetings, but I never had a meeting, man. I didn't think 1:04:14 1 hour, 4 minutes, 14 seconds about it as being when's it going to be over? Sure. 1:04:17 1 hour, 4 minutes, 17 seconds I mean, it was just things needed to be done and I don't mind doing that. Sure. 1:04:21 1 hour, 4 minutes, 21 seconds And it uh I got the the hidden nickname of handyman mayor uh because I've done a lot of repairs around the city. 1:04:29 1 hour, 4 minutes, 29 seconds We didn't have any money. 1:04:30 1 hour, 4 minutes, 30 seconds Sure. Now, when I went in mayor, we couldn't pay the payroll and the city bills all at the same time. Oh, wow. 1:04:37 1 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds We had to pay one or the other and wait for float to come in before we could pay the rest of it. 1:04:42 1 hour, 4 minutes, 42 seconds I mean, we were that close financially. How come we were so close fin like what? 1:04:47 1 hour, 4 minutes, 47 seconds Didn't have enough money just I mean just the tax base. I guess it just wasn't there just Yeah. 1:04:51 1 hour, 4 minutes, 51 seconds No, there was uh uh the power department in town. Uh we had three different 1:04:58 1 hour, 4 minutes, 58 seconds transformers. They couldn't talk to each other. There were different voltages in the transformers. 1:05:03 1 hour, 5 minutes, 3 seconds We were losing so much uh uh electricity or line loss. It was incredible. 1:05:08 1 hour, 5 minutes, 8 seconds The first uh the first four years I was mayor, the whole thing, we called it a cut over. We replacing lines and and 1:05:16 1 hour, 5 minutes, 16 seconds getting putting couple new substations and put them all on so he could wheel power from one to the other. If you had 1:05:24 1 hour, 5 minutes, 24 seconds power audies in one part of town, you can close this this shut off here and wheel power from the other one down to 1:05:32 1 hour, 5 minutes, 32 seconds it because there was different different lashups. Sure. It was insane. 1:05:38 1 hour, 5 minutes, 38 seconds And it uh so there's uh when we got rid of uh got that I mean the the electrical 1:05:45 1 hour, 5 minutes, 45 seconds department le I said extremely profitable. Extremely profitable. Yeah. And we were trying to we thought, 1:05:52 1 hour, 5 minutes, 52 seconds well, when I left, we had $6 million in surplus, which is going to do for community projects type of thing. 1:05:58 1 hour, 5 minutes, 58 seconds This is what your your power department is giving you back. Sure. 1:06:02 1 hour, 6 minutes, 2 seconds For for your staff and instance, but it's we've got we got so many people on the payroll in the United States. I don't know how they do it. 1:06:09 1 hour, 6 minutes, 9 seconds Sure. 1:06:10 1 hour, 6 minutes, 10 seconds I We got a full-time police department now. They got they got three full-time fire stations. Yeah. Man, for 24 hours a day. 1:06:16 1 hour, 6 minutes, 16 seconds We've grown a lot. Nearly 90% of the fires in the whole United States are taught by volunteer firemen, not full-time ones. 1:06:23 1 hour, 6 minutes, 23 seconds Uh you need full-time response. Sure. 1:06:26 1 hour, 6 minutes, 26 seconds Emergency first responders. You don't need a full-fledged fire department going every time. It's just here again, that's opinion. Sure. Sure. 1:06:34 1 hour, 6 minutes, 34 seconds By just watching what's happening in other places. Yeah. 1:06:37 1 hour, 6 minutes, 37 seconds You don't need to have three and a fourth being built that's staffed with four fire chiefs or four four hierarchies of a fire department. 1:06:45 1 hour, 6 minutes, 45 seconds Sure. It just I just don't think you need it. Sure. It's there's another way to do it. Sure. 1:06:50 1 hour, 6 minutes, 50 seconds And and I'm not saying they're stealing money. No. No. 1:06:54 1 hour, 6 minutes, 54 seconds They're spending money with a place they don't need to do it. Sure. 1:06:56 1 hour, 6 minutes, 56 seconds This is a visible thing that I think is wrong. Sure. 1:07:00 1 hour, 7 minutes And it's so I'm going to vote for those who are not incumbent. I want to change it. I want a change of attitude. Sure. Sure. Sure. I get it. I get it. Chapter 15: Closing Thoughts & Gratitude 1:07:09 1 hour, 7 minutes, 9 seconds Well, you know, I I uh I really appreciate you coming on and and you know, getting to know you a little bit better and all the obviously you've 1:07:16 1 hour, 7 minutes, 16 seconds you've you've done a lot of good in the community. 1:07:19 1 hour, 7 minutes, 19 seconds Well, you don't know that. I don't want to try. 1:07:21 1 hour, 7 minutes, 21 seconds I think you have done a lot of good in the community. So, I you know, I think uh you know, you've led a you know, and obviously done good in the world, you 1:07:29 1 hour, 7 minutes, 29 seconds know, in the mission and different things like that and your family and stuff. So, but uh um and I think you leave a good legacy and I'm sure your 1:07:37 1 hour, 7 minutes, 37 seconds children are quite happy to have you as a father and grandfather and stuff. We uh I hope so. I think they are. 1:07:44 1 hour, 7 minutes, 44 seconds And I I appreciate you and the opportunity to come and talk to you. I don't know if this will do any good or not. I don't know. 1:07:49 1 hour, 7 minutes, 49 seconds Yeah. This is perfect. It's all part of the community. It's keeping our community together. Well, whatever it is. So, 1:07:54 1 hour, 7 minutes, 54 seconds so it's but thank you for having me down and giving me a chance to lip off. Yeah. So, this is good. Yeah. Thank you, Ken. appreciate you. Thank you. 1:08:02 1 hour, 8 minutes, 2 seconds Thank you. 1:08:03 1 hour, 8 minutes, 3 seconds Thank you for joining us on Roots and Branches of Lehi. I hope today's story helped you feel a little more connected to the people who make up our community. 1:08:11 1 hour, 8 minutes, 11 seconds Remember, every person here has a unique story, and together, we're what makes Lehi feel like home. If you know someone who would be a great fit for this 1:08:19 1 hour, 8 minutes, 19 seconds podcast, please fill out the form in the show notes so we can reach out and schedule an interview. We'd love to hear from you. A big thank you to our 1:08:27 1 hour, 8 minutes, 27 seconds sponsors, the Work Harding Home Mortgage team and Play Harding Nightly Vacation Rentals for supporting this show and helping us bring our community closer 1:08:33 1 hour, 8 minutes, 33 seconds together. Until next time, keep growing those roots and reaching out to your branches. Take care. Sync to video time
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